Why don't we ever finish things(Fallujah,Najaf?)

[jeltz25]

Once again, it seems like we have not finished the job. Now that negotiations have begun in Najaf, Sadr will once again get away. We all know that he'll make some bs statement, drop out of the spotlight for a while, regroup, have the IRGC resupply him and be back to cause havoc.

This same thing happened with him in April, happened in Fallujah, it happens with Israel all the time, it'll happen again. What happened to the old "there is no substitute for victory", we will make no distinction between the terrorists and those that support them, all that talk, which it now seems like it was only that, talk.

I fear that if we continue to take this approach, we'll always have problems. This approach emboldens Tehran. Bush talks tough about their nuclear program, but does anyone here honestly think we'll do anything substantive about it. The Israelis are the only hope and even they have been a bit "wobbly" lately. If they don't have the balls to take out Arafat, do you think they have them to take on Tehran.

I'd appreciate a more positive outlook, but I think it's just spin. No disrepect to those in theater but if the politicians keep restricting them like this then their efforts are wasted. And before you flame away, I don't think Kerry will be any better, if anything he'll be worse, but Bush needs to realize that he needs to be decisive and be able to have victories to show the people. Coming on TV and saying "we have a cease fire, we're continuing to hunt them down" doesn't cut it, everyone sees right through it.

The ultimate irony we'll be that if Bush keeps this strategy up, he'll be back in Crawford come January and Moqtada al-Sadr we'll still be in power

[South40]

More bombs...less bullets.

[TomGuy]

The US seems to have an ongoing problem of getting bogged down in war zones. 'Decision makers' seem to reach a point of Murphy's law. The battle turns PC. Negotiations, truces, broken truces, quagmire, shades of VietNam. The political leaders can't seem to do what needs to be done--to finish the war.

When a war turns PC, it becomes political. We lose political wars because political decisions outweigh common sense.

[kaktuskid]

Put the fire out on your head!

[Mr. Mojo]

Where's your sensitivity?

[rushmom]

They are afraid of an uprising of millions of Shiites.

[oceanview]

its not our country - there is a soverign government there, we are helping them. they have to live there with these people, the Shia. we've knocked off a bunch of bad guys, but they are essentially holding St Peter's Basilica. Let's just see how it plays out. This insurgency is not a military threat of any kind, they are street thugs. the only way it can really become a problem for us, is if we do something that causes the situation to explode into a general uprising (which is what Iran wants).

its a difficult pill to swallow, when we know our military could wipe them out in 5 minutes - but's its reality.

[Diogenesis]

Islam on the road to finishing things. Proof?

================= EXHIBIT 1 ================

Subhuman IslamoNazi terror (ignored --but encouraged-- by American media)

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================= EXHIBIT 2 ================

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The War for Infinite Justice MUST BE ESCALATED

================= EXHIBIT 3 ================

AMERICANS ON A BRIDGE IN FALLUJA BY ISLAMIC SUBHUMANS

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The War for Infinite Justice MUST BE ESCALATED

================= EXHIBIT 4 ================

TORTURE OF AMERICANS BY ISLAMIC SUBHUMANS

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The War for Infinite Justice MUST BE ESCALATED

================= EXHIBIT 5 ================

PARTIAL LIST OF ISLAMIC TERRORIST ACTIVITIES

1968 Robert Kennedy assassinated
1972 Munich Olympics Sep-5,1972 (Black September)
1976 Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976
1979 Iran Hostage Crisis, Nov. 4, 1979 444 days
1979 Grand Mosque Seizure, Nov 20,1979
1981 Assassination of Egyptian President, Oct 6,1981
1982 Assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister, Sept 14, 1982
1983 Bombing of US Embassy in Beirut6, April 18,1983
1983 Bombing of Maring Barricks, Beruit, Oct 23,1983
1984 Hizballah Restaurant Bombing, April 12,1984
1985 Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, Nov 23,1985
1985 Rome Airport murders
1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacked, U.S. Navy diver murdered
1985 Achille Lauro hijacking, Homacidal maniac lived in saddams Iraq
1986 Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986
1988 Pan Am 747 Flight 103 Bombing, Lockerbie, 100's murdered
1988 Berlin Discoteque Bombing, Dec 21,1988
1992 Bombing in Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17,1992
1993 Attempted Assassination of Pres. Bush Sr., April 14,1993
1993 First World Trade Center bombing, February 26th, 7 Killed, Hundreds injured, Billions
1994 Air France Hijacking, Dec 24,1994
1995 Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan, Mar 8,1995
1995 Military Installation Attack, Nov 13, 1995
1995 Kashmiri Hostage taking, July 4,1995
1996 Khobar Towers attack
1996 Sudanese Missionarys Kidnapping, Aug 17,1996
1996 Paris Subway Explosion, Dec 3,1996
1997 Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, Sept 4, 1997
1997 Yemeni Kidnappings, Oct 30,1997
1998 Somali Hostage taking crisis, April 15,1998
1998 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Peru, Jan 15, 1998
1998 U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1998 U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 100's murdered
1999 Plot to blow up Space Needle (thwarted)
2000 USS Cole attacked, many U.S. Navy sailors murdered
2000-2003 Intifada against Israel - 100's dead and injured
2000 Manila Bombing, Dec 30,2000
2001 4 Commercial airliners hijacked, 250+ murdered
2001 World Trade Center attacked, 2800+ murdered
2001 Flight 93 murders
2001 Pentagon attacked, 180+ murdered
2002 Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and murdered
2002 Philippines American missionary, Filipino nurse killed
2002 July 4, El Al attack Los Angeles LAX, several murdered
2002 Bali bombing - 200 dead, 300 injured
2002 Yemen, French Oil Tanker attacked
2002 Marines attacked / murdered in Kuwait
2002 Washington D.C. sniper
2002 Russian Theater attacked, 100+ dead
2002 Nigerian riots against Miss World Pageant, 200 dead, dozens injured
2002 Mombasa Hotel Attacked, 12 dead, dozens injured
2002 Israeli Boeing 757 attacked by missiles, fortunately no one injured
2002 August Hotel bombing in Jakarta, Indonesia. 12 dead, dozens injured.
2003 Rusian concert bombing
2003 Phillipines airport and market bombing
2003 Foiled SAM plot in the USA
2003 UN Baghdad HQ Bombing
on and on and on and on their terrorism has gone .........

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The War for Infinite Justice MUST BE ESCALATED

================= EXHIBIT 6 ================

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And our response? Fallujah. Najaf. Feh.

[arjay]

Painfully true, but your are correct.

[Ramius]

Maybe I'm wrong... but hasn't Fallujah settled down pretty much as we wanted? Now we're settling Najaf... seems to me that things are better than they were a few months ago and getting better, not worse.

[airborne]

Guess once he comes out in the open somone won't be able to shoot him. What a minute, come to think of it...never mind.

[Maigret]

Wow! You must be pretty important, right there with the Commanders are ya? Or maybe with the Iraqi governing council? You must be to be able to make such judgments on what's going on in Najaf and Fallujah.

And if you ain't, then what qualifies you to comment on what you don't know is actually happening?

A recent interview on FOX with someone who is actually there with the people making the decisions is that there were more pluses than minuses in the way we've waited. A lot of the militias began to run out of food, water and supplies and overall became more vulnerable. Now maybe you like leading men into battle against people when they are at their strongest, but that just might not be the best way.

Please state your qualifications to make such judgments and I'll be happier to listen to your opinions.

[BipolarBob]

bump for later

[oceanview]

the reality of Fallujah - is that we killed as many of the guys we were trying to kill there (foreign fighters linked to Zarqawi) with those 5 precision bombing strikes, then we did when we had Marines fighting them in the streets.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

If every terrorist we kill turns ten more Muslims into terrorists, then whom are we really at war with?

[WOSG]

PING- Najaf = fallujah II? Not so fast. Iraqi govt has not given in to demands yet, and a pause is not a setback.
Cleric first negotiated, then spit out attacks again on friday. a great actor, al_sadr, with his bandages on his arm. But Powell isnt buying it. ... we will see if the Iraqi government has the strength to defeat him.

... or at least 'put him in a box'.


al-sadr's only strength is the backlash of American attacks on an embedded enemy, who abuses shrines and residential areas. it's foolish to think bombs on civilians and old buildings would help. it only helps al-sadr, which is why we have to tread carefully.

[WOSG]

I agree with you.

[WOSG]

Yes, fallujah has settled down, but no, not in the way we want. it has sympathizers to resistance and terrorists still running around; the militants were never disarmed.

these are like low-grade infections on the body politic.

[timpad]

It may be the doom of democracies that in time of crisis, we're simply unable to rouse ourselves to act. We in America apparently have learned very little from our time spent fiddling while Hitler burned.

I hope that rushmom is right, that our guys in the field are in charge, and they're standing in a lake of gasoline. In that case, I'd watch my matches very carefully.

But as time goes by, I'm beginning to come to your position, that it's spin.

[datura]

You're forgetting one major point: We are no longer the occupying force there. We are there at the request of their new government, who can't afford a total civil war to make YOU happy.

President Bush, Sec Rumsfeld, etc. are doing what is RIGHT instead of what is easy or satisfying. That's called pragmatic leadership. If it were up to me, our forces would be occupying Beijing, not Baghdad, but each will have it's turn.

Try to imagine Kerry as CinC!! He'd have our military marching to the orders of the UN, and kissing France's @ss - and al Qaida would be everywhere within the US killing Americans daily. If that's the future you want, just keep whining - because if enough of us in here give up the fight, what about John Q. Public that doesn't follow politics? They usually ask people like us for advice, and when they hear one of us bitching about the administration those comments stick - plus they spread the news to their friends and families. Think about that. Then get a grip, and remember that there's a whole lot of information you and I don't have that they do - that's why they are there and we aren't.