Did Jews Kill Jesus? So What?

Vanity | 3/9/2004 | Charles Lipsig (Me)

[Celtjew Libertarian]

From all I'm reading, the central question surrounding Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ is whether or not Gibson is portraying the Jews as responsible for the death of Jesus and whether or not this is anti-Semitism. I have a different question, if you'll pardon it coming from a non-Christian who's not seen the movie and isn't terribly familiar with the Christian Bible: So what?

I understand history. I understand that blaming Jews for the death of Jesus was a cause of anti-Semitism in the past. Heck, my grandparents and great-grandparents came to America, fleeing that mindset. I understand that there are still nutcases around -- perhaps entire nutty societies, though not in the U.S. -- who hold this to be the case and say that today's Jews are responsible for what happened almost two-thousand years ago.

But I also understand that this is the United States. This is a nation founded on the belief in the individual. An American cannot legally be punished for the actions of their family (the one exception being parents sometimes being held responsible for the acts of minor children). What a parent does is not held against their children.

By that bedrock belief, to hold the Jews of today responsible for whatever was done by the Jews of Jesus's time -- and even then, by those relatively few Jews who called for Jesus's death (Jews were already rather widely dispersed through the Roman Empire at that time, even if the Diaspora had not yet occurred) -- is un-American. More than blaming children for the actions of parents, it is blaming people of today for what their potential fifty-plus-times-great-grandparents may or may not have done and said. It goes against the American belief of individual responsibility.

Again: So what? Those worried that Gibson's move is anti-Semitic could easily say, "Maybe the Jews killed Jesus. Maybe they didn't. But no one can be held responsible for what occurred two-thousand years ago." But they don't. Why not?

Take a look at the politics of most of the critics. They're on the political left. And among the views held on the political left is support of affirmative action. Many on the left support slave reparations. Many blame American actions for the acts of 9/11.

In short, most of the left believe in collective guilt. They may not call it that, but penalizing members of certain groups and rewarding others for misdeeds in the past is collective guilt. The left holds individuals guilty for the acts of their ancestors. The time span may be compressed, but the American left has the same anti-individualist mindset that murdered Jews, claiming they were responsible for the death of Jesus.

For the left to confront the possibility that Jews -- not THE Jews, but some Jews -- may have been complicit in the death of Jesus would require them to say that there is no such thing as collective guilt. For a political mindset that has its policies grounded in this same collective guilt, this is an impossible thing to do. Thus, they must attack the movie.

So what? So that.

[veronica]

Did Jews Kill Jesus? So What?...

So Mel Gibson thinks Vatican II is an abomination. Isn't that one of the issues here? Shall the Church return to pre-Vatican II days? It's a question that affects both Christians and Jews.

[Just mythoughts]

"Under the circumstances, can anyone blame the leading Jews (or any Jew at all, for that matter) for wanting him out of the way?"

No since their fate was already sealed in Psalms 22.

That high priest's words were written down hundreds of years before the event happened.

[cousair]

You are absolutely right....it was preordained by God, therefore if blame is to be in the mix, lets ask God! I really think the flap has to do with the fact that Jews maybe feel they missed it.

[Agnes Heep]

Judea was a rough place. ( Still is) The locals would riot at the drop of a hat.

I think that was the fear both of the local bigwigs and Pilate. The fact that the tumult appears to have died down so quickly following Jesus's crucifixion suggests to me that whatever he was pushing was more or less nipped in the bud--at least for the time being.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Actually, God killed His Son if you believe in the Judeo-Christian religions.

Well, if you believe in the Christian religion(s). If you believe in the Judeo religion, then you don't believe God killed his son.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

One thing to note -- and maybe I could have made it clearer in the essay -- is that I'm not considering the question of who killed Jesus at the time it happened. I'm pointing out how the assumption that if Jews killed Jesus than all Jews are guilty of it goes against the concept of individuals being responsible for their actions.

It's more of a secular observation about a religious question.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

You don't believe Christ you don't believe the OLD Testament

Well, no. If you don't believe in Christ, you don't believe in the Christian interpretation of the OT.

[R. Scott]

If you believe in the Judeo religion, then you don't believe God killed his son.

But you do believe that God will kill His Son, the Messiah, when He comes.
The prophesies are in the Jewish Holy Books.

[R. Scott]

Yep.

[Just mythoughts]

"Well, no. If you don't believe in Christ, you don't believe in the Christian interpretation of the OT."


Whose version are you reading?

So you are one of those snip and clippers?

[Preachin']

While it is true that children were there, they were also present during the plagues and the first Pesach. Those were all rated R, at a minimum. The screaming of the Egyptian familes was heard throughout the land.

[veronica]

You might find this article of interest. Cherishing an older Catholicism - Controversy highlights belief of traditionalists like those in Richmond, N.H.

[missyme]

What's the Christian Bible? I don't think anyone in this generation can relate to people from 2000 years ago, people relate to G-d, his promies, his word his hope for the future and eternal life...When it's all said and done you either face G-d and give him 2 reasons on how you lived your human life.

1. G-d I obeyed all your commandments of TORAH never strayed...Please judge me accordingly.

2. G-d I was a full blown SINNER, I did not obey any commandments of TORAH, with all my heart I asked your son
Jesus Christ to enter my heart and my life and forgive me for my SINS. Please judge me accordingly...

[Celtjew Libertarian]

I believe the Messiah will come. I believe he will be a righteous human, not a god or aspect of God. I don't believe he will be killed by God, nor anyone else.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Whose version are you reading?

Usually the Jewish Publican Society revised (1955?) translation. Sometimes the 1917 translation. Sometimes the more recent Kaplan translation, when I'm looking at the Torah.

So you are one of those snip and clippers?

I am a Jew. Mind you, the Orthodox might consider me a snip & clipper. But even if were Orthodox, I'd still be a Jew who didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah. If that makes all Jews snip & clippers in your book, then so be it.

[missyme]

Tyere have been plenty of Richetous Men and Women in the world that have been loved by G-d yet still were killed.

As long as evil persists in the world everyone even the most holy will and can be killed

[Celtjew Libertarian]

The general Jewish belief on the Messiah is that at any one time there is a person who fits the criteria to be the Messiah. If the time for the Messiah comes -- and the belief tends to be that that time will come as a result of man's actions, not God's -- then that person will step forward and become the Messiah.

But many potential Messiahs have lived and died without the time coming and therefore are remembered, if at all, as merely righteous (if there is anything mere about righteousness).

[Blood of Tyrants]

This guy has a pretty good handle on it from the Jewish perspective.

[missyme]

I have a question if you don't mind answering..First I am a Christian and my gaith I can say is more personal in Jesus rather from what I have read in the Bible..But what Jesus did for me was bring me to want to read more of the word, maturing in may walk with G-d.

But that being said Here is my question.
The 2nd Coming of Christ, The Awaited Messiah and the Anti-Christ, from what I have been reading all share some common facts, along with some clashes.

1.The Jews that believe Jesus has not arrived yet, say this man who will be a JEW bring Peace to Israel and bring a sense of calm a Great Political Leader might be identified as the Messiah to some Jews, BUT: To some Christians he will be the Anti-Christ, so now if some radical Christians kills him because he is human then what?

2.The arrival of the Messiah that will be the 2nd coming for Christians believe there will be a pre-trib rapture so if folks start disappearing will Jews identify this event as something provoked by Jesus Christ?

3.If Biblical Prophecy happens" The Temple Mount is re-built, great famines, earthquakes,The War of Gog and Magog breaks out will Christians and Jews alike realize who Messiah truly is, or will the gap continue...

Your thoughts would be appreciated...

[Agnes Heep]

One thing to note -- and maybe I could have made it clearer in the essay -- is that I'm not considering the question of who killed Jesus at the time it happened. I'm pointing out how the assumption that if Jews killed Jesus than all Jews are guilty of it goes against the concept of individuals being responsible for their actions.

I think this gets back to the Old Testament, wherein God supposedly promises to call down his wrath on the wicked for generations to come.

It seems preposterous to think that the Almighty would deliberately do such a thing, but it isn't preposterous to think that societies who fail to live up to the standards espoused in the decalogue will suffer the natural, world-driven consequences of such behavior for a considerable time. What happens to societies where adultery is permitted; where theft and murder are allowed to go unchecked; where parents aren't respected ... they go to hell in a handbasket. Perhaps God isn't telling us what He is going to do, but rather, advising us what will befall us of its own course if his rules are flouted.