Does Gibson deserve the 'Passion' backlash? (the answer is "YES")

Boston Globe ^ | 2.16.04 | Cathy Young

[rface]

MEL GIBSON'S soon-to-be-released film "The Passion of the Christ" -- hailed by some as a powerful account of the last hours of Jesus' life, decried by others as an inflammatory screed with anti-Semitic overtones -- has become a lightning rod in the culture wars. The film's conservative defenders have charged that the criticism is driven by liberal fears of religion's growing influence on society. The critics charge that conservatives are using the issue to whip up a hysteria about alleged persecution of religion. Recently, the debate shifted to another inflammatory issue: Holocaust denial and comparisons between the Holocaust and other atrocities.

[DonnerT]

His point is that he killed Jesus (and I did, and you did,...)

Perzactly!
But the modern secular humanist scribes wish to deny that they sin.

[h.a. cherev]

But I think any rational human being would go to see the film before passing judgement on what it might or might not do.

Excellent. In the articles I read in my local Jewish paper, people like Foxman of the ADL DID see the film and DID pass judgement on what it might do.

Let's assume, for the moment, that I respect Foxman's perspective or that I saw the film and came to the same conclusion. What then? Do you dismiss my fears as irrational, belittle my concern as some in this thread have done, or do you, as a Christian, attempt to aussage them and bring me some measure of reassurance? As a Christian, and now that I've laid it out all nice and neat for you, I'd expect you'd choose the latter.

But if you look back over this thread, you'll find precious little of the comfort and understanding of the other's viewpoint that Christianity demands of its' adherents. Perhaps you disagree?

[jscd3]

Have a good one yourself :-)

[AD from SpringBay]

Headlines we'll never see:

Does [the producer of] the:
'Texas Chainsaw Massacre'
'Kill Bill'
'Throw Mama From The Train'
'Themla & Louis'
'Gigli'
[your choice here]
deserve the backlash? (the answer is "YES")

These, you see, are just movies and if you don't like them then you don't have to watch.

[beaversmom]

Okay I'll answer my own question. I looked up Cathy Young on the internet. It looks like she is somewhat a supporter of modern day Jews as well; however, I don't buy her premise about the movie or Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson's love and respect for his dad and love and respect for Jesus does not prove to me that Gibson is a Jew hater or holocaust minimizer.

[jscd3]

Does [the producer of] the: 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' 'Kill Bill' 'Throw Mama From The Train'...

I think that the producers of 'Throw Mama From The Train' should be held personally responsible for the rash of mothers thrown off of trains in recent years.

I also think that Mel Brooks should be held personally responsible for the surge of singing dancers in Nazi uniforms that so trouble us today...

For the satire impaired, I am suggesting that showing The Passion will not result in a sudden wave of hordes of rioting anti-semites. Unless, that is, Mel has hired Al Sharpton to run the films distribution...

[h.a. cherev]

By "innocent Germans", I meant that a showing of Schindler's List today could cause a backlash on Germans who weren't even alive during the Holocaust.

Has that ever happened?

The "backlash against Jews" argument is being used by the ADL as a reason not to show The Passion. Is this a valid argument by the ADL?

Have they actually said, "don't show it"? Or have they said, "modify it"? I guess it doesn't really matter - it amounts to the same thing - censorship of something that's truly a Christian matter. And I'm of the opinion that the ADL in general should keep it's mouth shut.

But I wonder why so many on this thread don't adopt a "more Christian" attitude towards the ADL? A type of "we understand what you're saying...you have a right to be concerned....is there something we could do to allay your fears but still maintain what we believe to be a historical truth?"

I don't see that attitude either on the part of Gibson or his supporters. What I do see is a more "us against them" attitude (and it's not entirely unjustified). But is it Christian?

[TheGeezer]

I remember in my Catholic gradeschool (from 1957 to 1965) that the nuns and the pastor taught that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, that is, by the authority of the Romans, who were Gentile like we were. There were Jews who called for His crucifixion, yes, but they were the agents of Temple officials who feared Jesus because He was so loved by the comman people, who also happened to be Jews. The majority of Jews loved Jesus, in other words.

Now if I may address another facet of your anti-Catholic diatribe...

Papal teachings vary in authority from personal opinion to those that are binding upon all Catholics. Not all teachings are infallible.

Examples of the reverential respect given to Papal teaching authority may be found very early in Church history. For example, at the Council of Chalcedon in 449 (one of the first four church councils), the conciliar fathers voted to accept the teaching of Pope Leo I concerning the person of Christ and His two natures, acclaiming Leo's words as "Peter has spoken through Leo." In other words, early church fathers recognized that the Keys of the Kingdom - the highest teaching authority - given by Jesus to Peter, was passed down 440 years or so, to Leo.

No Papal teaching meeting canonical requirements for infallibility have ever been contradicted by other popes. Regards.

[hosepipe]

The point of the movie went directly over Cathy Youngs head with a swisssh.....
Reason Magazine, indeed..... LoL

[OXENinFLA]

alleged persecution????

[jwalsh07]

Excellent. In the articles I read in my local Jewish paper, people like Foxman of the ADL DID see the film and DID pass judgement on what it might do.

Others from the Jewish faith have also seen the film and having seen absent preconceived notions of what it was all about enjoyed it and did not see the anit-semitic pahantoms. Perhaps you should give yourself the opportunity to use your own judgement?

Let's assume, for the moment, that I respect Foxman's perspective or that I saw the film and came to the same conclusion.

Why assume either? Eiither you repsect his perspective or you don't. Just declare either way. And you have not seen the film nor will you because you have declared that here on this thread. You really need to examine your own conscience and understand why you make such narrow statements before questioning the consciences of others, wouldn't you think?

What then? Do you dismiss my fears as irrational, belittle my concern as some in this thread have done, or do you, as a Christian, attempt to aussage them and bring me some measure of reassurance?

I think your fears are unfounded and misguided but, admittedly, I would take them more seriously if they were based in a viewing of the movie rather than your preconceived notions of rampant anti-semitism at the hands of Gibson and his movie. I presume you understand why.

As a Christian, and now that I've laid it out all nice and neat for you, I'd expect you'd choose the latter.

And I'd expect much better from an obviously bright fellow like yourself. My grandchildren were afraid of the dark closet until I took them in there and shut out the light. They no longer fear what is not there.

But if you look back over this thread, you'll find precious little of the comfort and understanding of the other's viewpoint that Christianity demands of its' adherents. Perhaps you disagree?

I really do only speak for myself. There is nothing to fear from Christ or ture followers of Christ. Of that I can assure you.

[TommyDale]

If a Jew yells,"Crucify him, crucify him" what makes him or her a Jew? You seem to have no trouble recognizing that if a Christian acts contrary to the teachings of Christianity, then he or she is not a Christian. But you also seem to feel that yelling, "crucify him, crucify him" IS part of the Jewish faith and thus those who yelled were Jews.

You appear to be confusing the inhabitants of Jerusalem (Jews by race/birth) with practicing Religious Jews. Nowhere have I stated or suggested that people of the Jewish Faith did this. I don't think we really disagree, except on defining what a Jew is -- whether it signifies a race or a religion.

[LibertyBelt]

The Engraved Invitation:
A Valentine From God

There! Engraved on the hands of Jesus,
the Christ, the Lamb, the Son of God -
Deep in the flesh and etched in blood
by the deadly tip of the hard nails
are the innocent names of all those
who let the wooden hammer fall:
those who held within their grip
the tool that brought Messiah death.

The names were carved by Jesus Christ,
who took their guilt and fashioned a knife
in the blazing fires of God versus man
on the anvil of choice and God's will.
And the loss of blood that slowly took
away our sins and devoured His breath
is now upon the lifted heads
of those to whom He gave this death.

My hands were on the hammer that fell,
which should have sent my soul to hell.
My fingers held those nails that pierced
the spotless skin of Christ so fierce-
And yet for this He gives me life,
this Isaac of God who took my knife
when, left forsaken yet quoting Psalms,
My name was written upon His palms?

Can it be, that on the very palms of God
are scars I made, when Jesus trod
unto the cross and carried the sin
of one like me - Barabbas' twin?
Though scoffers may laugh at such a "lie,"
I will believe my Lover so died.
For endless ages may Christ be hailed -
For I am held by the Hand I nailed!

February 15, A.D. 2004

[robertpaulsen]

"A type of "we understand what you're saying...you have a right to be concerned....

Do they? After all, you did question if there ever was a backlash on the German people.

Certainly if the numerous Holocaust movies, documentaries (69 documentaries made since 1990), special presentations, survivor stories, interviews with the children of, myths surrounding, revisiting the scenes of, etc, have not caused a backlash on the German people, how can we "understand" the reaction of the ADL and other critics of the movie? Based on what?

Could the answer be as simple as, "The Jewish people do not want any movie to portray them in a negative light"? And the reaction to The Passion is a shot across the bow, demonstrating to any future producer what can be expected?

[Caipirabob]

Mel's overall response to the criticism is correct -- It was not the Jews who killed the Christ -- it was the sin of Mankind (collectively). That's the message. To my Jewish brethern -- May the God of our fathers bless you and keep you.

BUMP!

..and here I was still hoping for reparations from dead Romans. Think home depot will take the shovel back? ; )

[Charles Martel]

This is something that has always bothered me; there were a reported 12m victims of the nazi death camps of which 6m were jews.

What were the other 6m?

Turnips?

I'm not denying that Jews were systematically murdered, not at all. But I think there's more to it than just the murder of the Jews, and I think that is often over looked.

Perhaps I, too, am a holocaust denier because I don't believe the jews have a monoploy of victimhood of the Nazis.

Before the suffocating blanket of political correctness descended upon us, the non-Jewish victims of the Nazi regime were openly discussed. Not anymore, though... people such as the noted typist who prepared the above article work hard to keep that PC blanket pulled up over our faces.

Of course, not all of the concentration camp / extermination camp victims were Jews. In a better, vanished time, teachers would tell students about how the Holocaust also claimed the lives of Germany's own "unfit" citizens - those with mental or physical defects - as well as Gypsies, Catholics, homosexuals, Polish intelligensia and community leaders, captured members of resistance organizations in the occupied nations (esp. Poland) - virtually every group that ran counter to the Nazi concepts of "genetic hygiene" or social order. Indeed, the Nazis spoke of eradicating the Poles long before they focused on the Jews.

NONE of which diminishes the tragedy that befell the Jews of Europe (though the media would have us believe otherwise).

[<1/1,000,000th%]

No problemo. I do that all the time. ;)

[<1/1,000,000th%]

A fascinating tidbit that, I believe, answers the question of who Mel Gibson believes is responsible for Christ's death is this: according to Charles Colson (Breakpoint, 2/12/04), in the movie, the hand holding the spikes being driven into Jesus' hands, is Gibson's. His point is that he killed Jesus (and I did, and you did,...)

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for that. 6^)

[sandbar]

>Feel free to disagree.

Well, that I do.

Now, I am not saying the murderers are to be mourned as the victims. But I am saying that millions of Ukrainians were not police persecuting the jews. And you can't hold that a victim of the holocaust's death meant more than someone who died in an air raid in London. That was the point I was trying to make. But of course, you can twist however makes you feel better.

[Antoninus]

I think Mel Gibson is brilliant and can't wait to see this movie. I have bought advance tickets for others and hope to get to watch the film multiple times during Lent.

That said, I urge our Jewish brothers and sisters not to buy into the propaganda being generated by the Leftwing media. The film (and the Christian scriptures for that matter) do not blame the Jews for the death of Christ--it blames ALL of us collectively. We believe that Jesus died to redeem the sins of ALL mankind. So in a sense, Jews are guilty of the blood of Christ, but no moreso than I am, or Mel Gibson is, or any other sinner may be. Gibson said as much in his interview on EWTN a couple weeks ago.

I support Israel. I am a Judeophile. Do not let propaganda and lies emmanating from the secular/atheist media divide us.