Posted on 02/16/2004 7:22:27 AM PST by rface
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:11:38 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
MEL GIBSON'S soon-to-be-released film "The Passion of the Christ" -- hailed by some as a powerful account of the last hours of Jesus' life, decried by others as an inflammatory screed with anti-Semitic overtones -- has become a lightning rod in the culture wars. The film's conservative defenders have charged that the criticism is driven by liberal fears of religion's growing influence on society. The critics charge that conservatives are using the issue to whip up a hysteria about alleged persecution of religion. Recently, the debate shifted to another inflammatory issue: Holocaust denial and comparisons between the Holocaust and other atrocities.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
...criticism is driven by liberal fears of religion's growing influence on society...
And how untrue this statement is. We can only hope and pray.
Yeah...that would do a lot of good.
but is it so wrong to say that EVERY life lost was just as important?
Yes, it is...depending on the life. For example, do you mourn the murder of a concentration camp guard who died during an uprising at the end of the war equally with the Jew he murdered during the uprising? Is it "self-defense" because the Jews were rioting?
Are they saying that a jew's life is worth more then say, someone who starved in the Ukraine?
Depends on how the Ukrainian lived his life. Doesn't it? If he starved to death because he gave his last morsel of bread to a Jewish child he was hiding, then the answer to your question is that the lives of each are equally important. If, on the other hand, he starved to death because he was part of the Ukrainian police who persecuted Jews during the Holocaust and he starved to death in prison, then I don't have too much sympathy for him.
Feel free to disagree.
Since the leftist media is currently ignoring the attacks on Jews and their synagogues in Europe by Muslims, why do they care???
If you are referring to who drove the nails into his hands and feet, it was the Romans who crucified Him. However, when Pontius Pilate said "I find no fault in Him", and the crowd yelled, "Crucify him, crucify him!", are you saying there were no Jews in that crowd? Of course there were. You can blame either side, or both. It doesn't matter who gets the blame, it was all in God's perfect plan. No true Christian today feels hatred toward the Jews or the Romans for Jesus being crucified. That entire concept defies the very purpose of His crucifixion.
What they fear more than anything is great art that justifies civilization. They do not want popular dramss to speak to history or to the foundations of a system they see as being oppressive. That is why they are smearing Gibson. They fear a triumph that rids us of the guilt they thrive on.
Yes, real easy.
Their agriclutural & industrial base was destroyed, millions were displaced from their homes and dispossesed of their personal property, their country was occupied and divided, with portions parceled out to other nations and nearly 1/3 of the country enslaved by Soviet communisim.
On a more personal level, my father's family was a pacifist, German Mennonite farming family living in the East Prussian province of Germany (now Poland). My four great-uncles were conscripted against their wishes and religious convictions into the Bundeswehr and killed during the war.
As the Soviets advanced, my father's family fled their farm abandoning their home, nearly all of their possessions and remaining livestock and produce (whatever hadn't already been pillaged by the retreating German army). As my family fled on back country roads the German army shanghaied my grandfather, who was 38 years old and just 4'10", not to be seen or heard from again for nearly 3 years.
After the Russians rolled through, resident Poles attacked all German civilians. My grandmother and her 4 children were beaten by these resentful Poles and had their remaining horse, wagon and personal possessions stolen and/or destroyed.
With little money and just the clothes on their backs, my grandmother and her 4 children - aged 2, 3, 7 & 9 - traveled across hundreds of miles of battle-scarred German countryside on foot. She worked day labor jobs wherever she could or begged for food for her children. She has only hinted at improper things she may have done to feed and house her children (and I really don't want to ask). They slept in ditches, sheds or barns for more than 2 months before reaching a relative's home for shelter in what became the Western occupied zone.
Like tens of thousands of homeless German civilians, my family was eventually relocated to a Displaced Persons camp run by the US Army, where my grandfather found them a year later.
So other than the deaths, the loss of real estate, all personal possessions, personal liberty and possibly virtue, the beatings, the starvation, the family separation, the poverty and illness - yes, my German family got off pretty easy.
Think next time before you say something galactically stupid.
Oh, the irony.
Of course not. And it is not only in Europe, but the liberals also support the PLO, Hamas, and other terrorist groups who murder Jews. The media's criticism of Gibson's film is unquestionably motivated by something other than concern for Jews.
That being said, are there genuine anti-Semites who, upon seeing this movie, might be "inflamed" enough to commit violence? Let's say, for example, that a group of young people see this movie and firebomb a synagogue killing a dozen or so worshippers. They're caught and admit that seeing the Jews in the movie cry "May his blood be upon us and our children forever." inflamed them enough to take action.
I realize it's a stretch for some people, but let's assume this is a possibility for arguement's sake. Who bears responsibility? Be very careful with your response.
If you say, "the people who did it are responsible" and deny that Gibson's film was a motivating factor, you would be taking a strict legal viewpoint. My next question would be, is the denial of responsibility the act of a true Christian? In short, WWJD?
I haven't seen the movie nor will I. Nor will I subscribe to the rantings of the liberal media or those misguided, faithless Jews who dare to critize and call names without justification. They continue in their never-ending quest to render meaningless the term, "anti-Semitism". Yet with all that, I wonder about how Christianity has been represented in all these posts....have the supporters of the movie who denounce the critics acted as Jesus would have? "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do" is a lesson which does not seem to be evident in most of the postings. Agreed?
You are correct of course. But this is irrelevant. Simply having a non-PC opinion is, by definition, intolerant, and, consequently, everything that follows is always "your fault"
You may actually want to look up what Papal Infallibility is rather than speculating. Try NewAdvent.com; there are extensive academic treatments on the matter.
I'm guessing that you'll find that it isn't what you think it is... Have a good one ;-)
Crucifiction was, in fact, a Roman (not a Jewish) practice.
However, when Pontius Pilate said "I find no fault in Him", and the crowd yelled, "Crucify him, crucify him!", are you saying there were no Jews in that crowd? Of course there were.
Very interesting. Let's explore this further.
No true Christian today feels hatred toward the Jews or the Romans for Jesus being crucified. That entire concept defies the very purpose of His crucifixion.
Ah, but "true Jews" back then yelled "Crucify him, crucify him"?
It appears you want it both ways, doesn't it?
There are those who say that the Nazis were Christian. In point of fact, most were born into a Christian faith. But by their conduct they proved that they were not Christian and, in fact, diametrically opposed to Christianity, correct? The same argument could be made about the Klan. They burn crosses and demand the supremacy of "White Christians", but how many of us would say, "oh yes, they're REAL Christians." Shouldn't the same standard apply to the Jews?
Since the movie hasn't even been released yet, it's hard to say. However, there are already at least a dozen movies depicting the Passion of Christ and they're shown on television and cable around Easter every year for at least the last 4 decades. How many attacks have occured so far?
Both of my parents and all of my older relatives went to Catholic Schol in the 30's and 40's and none of them were taught anything like the notion that all Jews or Jews generically were responsible for the death of Christ. They were taught that The Pharisees and Saducee bore considerable responsibility since Christ was a direct threat to their authority (and because the Pharisee were worried about the potential Roman responce to what they saw as a call for a kingdom on Earth), but that the entire matter was pre-ordained and necessary for Human salvation.
By the way, they were also taught that Judas could have escaped damnation for turning over Christ if he had repented and shown faith rather than committing suicide
I hear what you are saying about the occassional nun though. My dad had a creep who was a communist (yup, even back then). Used to make her English class read and report on articles in the PM. Dad never considered abandoning Catholocism because of her, though - he just got really good at making fun of communists.
Cost him a summer of school to make up for the flunking she gave him, but he always felt it was worth it...
I don't know. Do you know for sure?
I do know there were Passion Plays in Europe for centuries which resulted in mass murder, so you will understand if there is some concern.
The bigger question, IMHO, is whether your reaction is worthy of your faith. Do you take my concern seriously as a "true Christian" would or do you brush it off?
I find the reaction of all the "True Christians" in this thread much more revealing than any article written by some liberal. Again, WWJD?
Probably drive the author of this nonsense out of the offices of Reason magazine with a rope whip because of her mendacity...
Just speculating, of course...
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