The Women of Middle Earth (Great Article!)

Catholic Exchange ^ | 12/18/2003 | Christine O'Donnell

[Pyro7480]

I saw the author speak on this at the Heritage Foundation yesterday over lunch. She gave a really good presentation. Her niece was also present to assist her, since she is also a huge Tolkien fan. She expanded on her article a bit, and opened it up for discussion. The whole thing was taped by Book Tv, and should air in late January 2004

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[ecurbh]

Ring Ping!!

There and Back Again: The Journeys of Flat Frodo

Anyone wishing to be added to or removed from the Ring-Ping list, please don't hesitate to let me know.

[SuziQ]

I'll have to watch for this!

[Xenalyte]

Why is there seemingly so little written about Tolkien and women?

Perhaps because Tolkien wrote so little about women. I always found Arwen stultifying. When my best friend and I were in junior high, we'd role-play LOTR, and we'd have screaming knock-down-drag-out fights about who got to be Eowyn.

[squarebarb]

Important to remember Tolkien was English and all of the women were royal. They were of the aristocracy. Except Bilbo's mother. So they had certain roles to play as aristocrats. Eowyn takes on the duties of an aristocratic male, that of a squire, really, as in a young warrior that has been knighted. Arwen oerforms the duties of the princess of a small kingdom. The rules Eowen breaks are those expected of a royal princess.

[LiteKeeper]

reqd later

[Wneighbor]

Yet, in the film, Peter Jackson causes Arwen to perform the heroic tasks of Elrond and Glorfindal, making her appear more a stereotypical warrior princess like those popular with today’s audience. It is as though he is introducing her character as a warrior so viewers won’t notice that she becomes a passive heroine later in the story. It’s as if Jackson is justifying her later passive portrayal that is true to Tolkien’s Arwen.

You know. I really like this article. But this one paragraph that I have copied bothers me. I identify more with Arwen than Eowyn - but people often tell me I remind them of Eowyn. In that vein, I think it's a true mark of womanhood that we can be both. We can be the passive and serene woman and yet, when the time is needful become the warrior princess. This is one time when I disagree with a criticism of PJ's adaptation. I don't see that he messed up Arwen at all. I think she is just more fully developed.

I still miss Glorfindel though. He is my favorite male elf!

[Mercat]

I just finished Return of the King for something between the 7th and 10th time. I've lost track. I've read the others almost as often. I'm sorry but I love the scene in the movie, Fellowship of the Ring where Arwen brings Frodo to the river and leans over him and prays, "What grace is given me, give to him." What a wonderful prayer. I always thought that she was too distant in the book... too much an old bachelor don's fantasy. Jackson fleshes her out. This is a mother's prayer, a lover's prayer, truer love than this etc sort of love.

[billbears]

Maybe Tolkien was saying that while woman should be respected, some of society’s ‘chivalrous’ ideas were doing more harm than good, isolating woman instead of protecting them

I know I'm probably going out on a limb here being a male and all ;) but I can see a Biblical description of what women can and sometimes should be in this series. And of course what men should be. I think I may not have fully noticed it however until watching the movie and seeing it in action. Today's society will call it chauvinistic but there it is

[Hegewisch Dupa]

...we'd have screaming knock-down-drag-out fights about who got to be Eowyn

Why is this not a shock?

[GretchenEE]

Hey, they be talkin' bout chu all over this thread -- references to "warrior princess"!

[GretchenEE]

I've taken to making hash marks by five's in the front of books I re-read so I'll know how many times I've consumed them. ;-)

[LinnieBeth]

Really good critique, Thanks.

She forgot Goldberry- but hey-
I agree with her comments about Arwen, I would add that I have come to see Arwen, not a 'passive', but as an Intercessor. Having a depth of love and faith, able to encourage Aragorn to fulfill his role, but rather that passive, she continues to actively support him with intercession.

With Eowyn we meet her and watch her before she finds and loves Faramir. We don't know but can guess that her restlessness and physicality aren't quieted by that love. Tolkien doesn't say, but I've always assumed that she finds a completeness and becomes a bit more tranquil and serene in her marriage to Faramir.

Just a thought?

[Wneighbor]

Today's society will call it chauvinistic but there it is

I don't call it chauvinistic at all! And it's great to hear a man voice his opinion on this. I appreciate it that Tolkien shows a deep understanding of women not as shallow weaker people. But, as the other ones that God created, with our own strengths, weaknesses and contributions to be made. I don't feel he was patronizing at all to women. In each of his female characters there was strength and worth, and yet they remained very much women. I want to be thought of in that manner myself.

[MrConfettiMan]

LOL! I assume you won? :)

[Xenalyte]

Not always - Kira was pretty tough! She went to Harvard, then moved to Seattle, went to some law school up there, and last I heard was dancing in a lesbian peep show. Which just goes to show, you really CAN do anything with a Harvard degree.

[Restorer]

They were of the aristocracy. Except Bilbo's mother.

Well, she was as close as the hobbits got to aristocracy. One of the themes of the book that I don't think come across easily to most Americans is that Sam was a servant and the other three hobbits were upper class. So the eventual disappearance of the social distance between them was his way of pointing out the essential irrelevance of such distinctions. Since few Americans pay much attention to such distinctions in the first place, I don't think we get this.

[Restorer]

Why do you think PJ's Arwen is all active and warlike in the beginning and then just sits out the whole war? Frankly, I was expecting to have her fill Halbarad's role as well as Glorfindel's. I thought she would be the one to bring Auduril to him in Rohan and ride with him on the Paths of the Dead.

[squarebarb]

Excellent observation. I noticed that. And, Frodo and Bilbo seem rather like the elite of a small town, defintely recognized as such, rather scholarly. Perhaps a good comparison would be people who are judges in a small southern town or county. Sam is of 'the laboring classes'. And that is right, these differences dissapear totally as they struggle on toward their great goal. I thought Tolkien did that very well, the gradual dissappearance of the class differences between Frodo and Sam without ever directly saying one word about it. What a great book.