Posted on 04/04/2024 4:46:20 AM PDT by marktwain
Carrying a gun for defensive purposes, with an empty chamber, is a controversial measure which proponents claim enhances safety. It is one of the reasons handguns appear to work better for self defense against bears than long guns. Long guns are more commonly carried with an empty chamber than are handguns. Handguns are more commonly carried for self defense than long guns. A recent bear attack illustrates the problem of carrying a long gun with an empty chamber. From Alaskapublic.org 2021:
“I remember looking over my shoulder, and I was saying something to them when I kind of heard the bushes crashing, and that’s when I looked up and looked over toward [where] the sound was coming from,” he said. “I couldn’t even really see it all at first because the brush was pretty thick, but about 20 feet away … this bear comes charging out of the brush at full speed.”
The victim had warning. He heard the bushes crashing. He had time to look in the direction the noise was coming from. It was almost certainly a large animal, a bear or a moose. If he had a loaded shotgun in his hands, he could have covered the area the sound was coming from, at the ready. The victim had a pre-concieved notion of how an attack might happen. The most common way in which bear maulings occur is with a surprise attack from short distances.
Coltharp said it happened so fast.
“And without any, you know, warning at all. Normally, when they’re defensive over their territory, they let you know,” he said. “They get all huffy and puffy and they start popping their jaw and making a lot of noise, and there was there was absolutely none of that going on.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
First encounters with the enemy made us ignore that order. Time to react is not something to fiddle with in Indian Country and the early M16s had sticking safeties (hard detent).
I followed the same rule when I was fishing or just hiking in bear country and just made sure that my weapon was always pointed in a safe direction at all times and never rested the thing on anything that it could fall and set itself off.
BTW, while I was a young PFC, I perfected the trick of going from sling arms (M14) to pointed and fired in one second. Never had to use that for real, since my weapon was always in my hands in the field - but it was a potentially useful trick for when I was hiking at sling arms in the mountains of northern New Mexico. Just don't practice it with live ammo if there's anyone else at all within range! (I used blanks when I practiced)
What happens if you need two hands to rack the slide and the bear is already on you?
Well, you let me know EXACTLY when I'll have that bear encounter, and I'll leave my weapon unchambered until then. Better yet, I'll leave my weapon at home until the exact date and time you've provided me.
Totally agree with the premise of the article. However, I believe three stories were recounted and it wasn’t clear in any of them that the empty chamber made the difference.
One time it was the gun being slung over the back, I don’t think in any of the cases the victim was trying to chamber a round when the bear reached them.
In at least one of the cases a nearby companion with a chambered round didn’t get off a shot until the victim was being mauled.
One of them was trying to deter the bear with yelling and waving first.
I think the reason the stories don’t exactly illustrate the point is because the situation in which the bear reaches you AND you lost because of the split second involved with chambering a round, is super rare.
To be clear again, carrying a long gun for hunting, I will always have a round chambered, safety on.
What if you're walking down a trail and don't see a bear sleeping in the bush?
So how many times have you been glad you had an empty chamber?
Excluding those Russian Roulette sessions.
Like when you pointed your gun at some non-target and jerked the trigger over and over?
Or when you dropped it on the hammer?
Is the empty chamber just an excuse to be lazy and sloppy in gun handling?
Well, if you let some perp grab your gun, you might be glad the chamber was empty. To be even safer, keep the magazine empty too, and then don’t even carry any ammo.
Yeah, all the old-timers have stories about the time Joe-Bob’s firing pin spring broke, and those springs cost maybe eight bucks or so. /(Do I really need a tag?)
I carried with one in chamber for many years. Dropped an old 45 when getting it and some other stuff out of my pickup. In the garage. I know was careless and it was my own fault. Bottom line… it was on safety and in a holster and fired. It hit the ground between my feet and blew my left shin (tibia) in two. Exploded it with a cheap target round in it. I’m 14 months past that day. About 90% recovered. And I have a titanium rod and screws inside the tibia bone…… from now on. Yeah…. I don’t carry with one in the chamber anymore. Everyone has to make their own decisions.
🐂💩
Older dads such as I have other issues such as racking a slide with a heavy hammer being part of the strength needed to complete the rack. My hand strength or lack of can easily fail a rack if the hammer is down.
Thus I carry with a cocked hammer on an automatic handgun, and will absolutely not carry with a round in the chamber. Like your dad, I don’t really like carrying with a loaded chamber in a six gun either, but the six gun only has five and single or double action still takes time to pull a heavy trigger or to cock.
After all, a man’s got to know his limitations.
“ If a bear is actually that close to you and you do get off a shot because you saved that one second, in reality will that shot immediately stop that bear from still attacking you?”
The chances are far better that it will than if you never get the shot off because you’re racking the slide.
Better one shot than no shots. Wouldn’t you agree?
L
I know you are the expert on this topic. But this universal display of trigger happy folks scares the hell out of me. Everyone wants to be a Dick Cheney.
We all know them and have interacted with them, and we whisper only to ourselves because we don’t want to discourage ownership, but some folks should never carry a firearm let alone chambered all the time. Their practices and habits are going to kill someone someday.
Unintentional discharge is a very real thing... And it happens because of being cocked, locked, loaded, and trigger happy. These kind of foolish accidents do not help the argument in favor of gun rights at all.
I wonder how many humans have been injured because someone was too quick to think they were a bear?
Another example of the irrelevant ans incongruous (and usually ill-informed) click-bait that is ammo.com’s stock-in-trade.
I have searched for such incidents. I have not found any so far.
However, mistaken identity shootings while hunting (Shooter thought the human was a game animal) are one of the most common firearms accidents while hunting.
It has little to do with having a chamber loaded or not, as the hunter thought the human was a game animal.
“The chances are far better that it will than if you never get the shot off because you’re racking the slide.
Better one shot than no shots. Wouldn’t you agree?”
Except I have to wonder what the bigger danger truly is with this. Bears or thousands of trigger happy humans?
I go to Montana about every other year.
Each time I go, I have been in the presence of Griz. I’m hiking in the dense out back.
I’m finally ready for the next outing, thanks to the advice of Mark Twain.
“I have searched for such incidents. I have not found any so far.”
I did too... And could not find any statistics from Alaska or Canada where this stat should apply.
“However, mistaken identity shootings while hunting (Shooter thought the human was a game animal) are one of the most common firearms accidents while hunting.”
Absolutely.
“It has little to do with having a chamber loaded or not, as the hunter thought the human was a game animal.”
But it does, that extra second might make a huge difference in identity.
Like I asked Lurker, what is the bigger danger to the human species here? Bears or thousands of chambered trigger happy humans?
“Except I have to wonder what the bigger danger truly is with this. Bears or thousands of trigger happy humans.”
You’re either not real bright or you’re being deliberately obtuse. My money is on the former.
There aren’t “thousands of trigger happy humans” running around in Grizzly Bear country.
L
Certainly possible. I have not seen any cases where it appeared to be significant.
Most of the mistaken identity cases I have read about involved shooting at noise, or mere movement. Sometimes they involve a successful hunter carrying a deer, the person shoots at the deer and hits the hunter carrying it.
In Wisconsin, these sort of cases were reduced to almost nothing by the requirement to wear florescent orange during deer hunting season.
And, of course, arguing for argument sake is a great defense against a bear attack.
You’ll be well-armed.
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