Posted on 04/04/2024 4:46:20 AM PDT by marktwain
Carrying a gun for defensive purposes, with an empty chamber, is a controversial measure which proponents claim enhances safety. It is one of the reasons handguns appear to work better for self defense against bears than long guns. Long guns are more commonly carried with an empty chamber than are handguns. Handguns are more commonly carried for self defense than long guns. A recent bear attack illustrates the problem of carrying a long gun with an empty chamber. From Alaskapublic.org 2021:
“I remember looking over my shoulder, and I was saying something to them when I kind of heard the bushes crashing, and that’s when I looked up and looked over toward [where] the sound was coming from,” he said. “I couldn’t even really see it all at first because the brush was pretty thick, but about 20 feet away … this bear comes charging out of the brush at full speed.”
The victim had warning. He heard the bushes crashing. He had time to look in the direction the noise was coming from. It was almost certainly a large animal, a bear or a moose. If he had a loaded shotgun in his hands, he could have covered the area the sound was coming from, at the ready. The victim had a pre-concieved notion of how an attack might happen. The most common way in which bear maulings occur is with a surprise attack from short distances.
Coltharp said it happened so fast.
“And without any, you know, warning at all. Normally, when they’re defensive over their territory, they let you know,” he said. “They get all huffy and puffy and they start popping their jaw and making a lot of noise, and there was there was absolutely none of that going on.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
The empty chamber idea came about before the idea for a safety plate between the hammer and firing pin was introduced. It’s not necessary to carry a modern revolver with an empty chamber. If it’s dropped on the hammer it won’t fire.
That’s why you should never bend over in bear country 🥴…..
“Do you think a bear is actually that fast?”
Yes. They can move at up to 35mph.
“Is it that easy for a bear to sneak up that close to you without you knowing?”
Yes, it is. This case amply shows that.
“You don’t think you will have more than one second to recognize a bear as a possible threat?”
Maybe. But the maybe not carries a significant risk of death or gruesome injury. I’ll save myself that one second every time.
“How many years in a row are you going to carry a chambered firearm before you actually encounter a bear if ever?”
Better to have it at the ready and not need it…
L
Shouldn’t they be using bear spray? Lol.
If you’re that paranoid about bears then stay in the city.
100%
1. Yes, bears are very fast. Most of the time, when people are mauled by bears, it is because the attack was a surprise at close range.
2. You have to recognize the threat, decide to act, and then have time to engage the threat and neutralize it. For a person who is alert, with a loaded firearm in their hands, this can be done in under a second. For a person with a holstered handgun, it can be done in about a second and a half (some people can do it faster, but most can easily be trained to the second and a half standard).
3. If you do not consider the potential noise, whatever, to be a threat, why would you chamber a round?
4. Many years in a row. Most people carry for many years before needing to draw a loaded firearm. Of course, there are many more threats than bears. Moose and humans come to mind. Much depends on the situation. Some people in Alaska have had to shoot many bears in defense because they live on salmon streams (while running a cattle ranch!). Nearly everyone who lives in Manhattan has never been threatened by a bear.
In some situations, bears are a clear and present danger much of the time. In others, human predators are a real and present danger. In some blessed locals/situations, the danger of attack is very, very low. If you are carrying a firearm to defend against bears, the assumption is you are where the potential danger from bears is much greater than in Manhattan.
All firearms should be in “Condition 1”, using an external safety, if available.
Also usually takes two hands to chamber or load which may not be possible in an emergency
A fairly prominent defense attorney who has handled a number of self defense shootings shared with me years ago that there is often a view (consciously or subconsciously at times) that if you had time to bring a weapon into play AND chamber a round successfully before shooting an attacker that you had time to possibly use other options (yes with stand your ground it shouldn’t matter but..)
IMO carrying any weapon for defense in anything but ready state is hubris
Carrying a long gun without a round in the chamber is pointless. You might as well carry a baseball bat. If you’re that scared of the gun the bat may be a better choice.
CC
If a bear is actually that close to you and you do get off a shot because you saved that one second, in reality will that shot immediately stop that bear from still attacking you?
If it is jumping at you from that close I think you are pretty much in trouble anyhow whether you scored a good shot and saved one second or not.
People often have pre-conceived scenarios about how an attack will occur. If a person's pre-conceived notion of an attack allows them plenty of time to understand the situation, react, and then defeat the attack, they will probably be unprepared for a quick, surprise attack.
A significant number of bear attacks, where people are injured, especially by grizzly bears, are surprise encounters at close range.
There is probably some selection bias occurring in the reporting. If people have more time to react to a dangerous situation with a bear, they are more likely to avoid the situation, access an effective defense, and/or kill or drive off the bear. Where there is no human injury, reports are much less likely.
Exactly that, most dangerous bear encounters are surprise encounters where both the bear and the hunter/hiker end up being too close to each other when they become aware of each other. If that bear is close, and charges, a second could count, and the surprised hunter/hiker needs to get lead on target before that bear knocks him down. Having an empty chamber is one less round the hunter can put on target in those precious seconds.
Long guns have safeties that won’t go off when dropped.
Handguns do not.
Are Extreme Speed and Accuracy Necessary to Defend Against Bears?
A fair amount of the time, yes. 13 Cases which meet your criteria, out of 174 total, were found when the linked article was written. There were some cases where the mere gunshot stopped/deterred the attack, without killing the bear. Those are not counted in the 13 mentioned.
There were a couple of cases where the victim stopped the attack by shooting the bear *after* they were injured. In the vast majority of cases, the situation was not a surprise attack at close range.
I carry a single action .44 magnum Virginian Dragoon for bears or a Glock 29 chambered. My Dad will not carry chambered no matter how many stories I encounter where an unchambered weapon brought about disastrous consequences for the person carrying the weapon.
I believe you are mistaken. For at least 40 years, handguns have been much less likely to go off when dropped than long guns, because of the successful lawsuit against Ruger.
You have to know that that's a really silly statement, right? Springs have a nearly infinite lifetime and they're really cheap and easy to replace if you worry about its lifetime.
I've owned damn near every firearm ever made, many of which had springs compressed for centuries and all of them are still working just like new.
“Point and pull.”
My motto.
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