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The Mind Of Donald Trump: Why Proving A Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure A Conviction For Jack Smith
Jonathan Turley via The Hill ^ | 08/10/2023 | Jonathan Turley

Posted on 08/10/2023 6:42:30 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Below is my column in The Hill on how the second indictment of Donald Trump could fail even if Special Counsel Jack Smith could prove that the former president knew that he was lying after the election. Proving his state of mind will be controversial, but, even if successful, it would not necessarily be determinative in the constitutional challenges to come.

Here is the column:

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.

Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.

Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”

In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.

The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.

As a threshold matter, one problem is immediately evident.

If Trump actually did (or does) believe that he did not lose the election, the indictment collapses.

And so in an effort to demonstrate his knowledge, the indictment details how many people told Trump that he was wrong about the election and wrong about the law. I was one of those voices.

Trump did not listen to me, most legal analysts or even his White House counsel.

Instead, he listened to a small group of lawyers who assured him that a challenge might succeed and that there was evidence of massive election fraud.

But Trump is allowed to seek out enablers who tell him what he wants to hear. All presidents do this.

(Joe Biden, for example, ignored virtually unanimous legal opinion and relied upon a single law professor’s say-so to justify an obviously unconstitutional executive action that later had to be reversed).

This case, which criminally targets the sitting president’s leading opponent, is much more dangerous because it sets up the federal government as the arbiter of truth.

This indictment essentially charges Trump with not accepting the “truth.”

There is no limiting principle to this indictment.

The government would choose between which politicians are lying and which are lying without cause.

Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen.

Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.

Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.

Yet even assuming Trump knew his claims were false, there would still remain the controversial effort to link his false claims to the actions of others in challenging the election. And even then, there remains the constitutional problem of criminalizing political lies.

In the 2012 decision United States v. Alvarez, the Supreme Court held 6-3 that it is unconstitutional to criminalize lies in a case involving a politician who had knowingly lied about his military decorations.

Some of us in the free speech community heralded that decision as correct long before Trump was even a consideration for the presidency. The court recognized that criminalizing false statements “would give government a broad censorial power unprecedented in this court’s cases or in our constitutional tradition. The mere potential for the exercise of that power casts a chill, a chill the First Amendment cannot permit if free speech, thought, and discourse are to remain a foundation of our freedom.”

What was most striking about the case was that Xavier Alvarez knew he was lying about the medals. A 6-3 majority, including every liberal justice on the court at that time, ruled that Congress had gone too far in attempting to criminalize lies about one’s military service.

Likewise, Trump might have known that his claims of systemic voter fraud were bogus, yet still believed that a recount could flip the close result. This might be what he meant in his call with Georgia officials in which he stated “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.”

So even assuming that Smith can prove Trump lied, there would still be constitutional barriers to criminalizing his false statements.

That is why the threshold constitutional claims in this indictment should be addressed by the courts before it goes forward.

The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is theworst [judge] Trump could have got.”

Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.

That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried.

And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: doj; dojweaponized; donatedonaldtrump; donatetrump; jacksmith; jan6; trump; trumppersecution
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1 posted on 08/10/2023 6:42:30 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Another episode of “We’ve got him now!”


2 posted on 08/10/2023 6:43:22 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Trump has all the right enemies, DeSantis has all the wrong friends.)
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To: SeekAndFind

If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison.


3 posted on 08/10/2023 6:50:23 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (The worst thing about censorship is ████ █ ██████ ███████ ███ ██████ ██ ████████. FJB.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Traitor Roberts disagrees.


4 posted on 08/10/2023 6:50:47 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

It is theoretically possible that there has been a politician that could pass that test.

If money is on the line I would rather bet on String Theory though.


5 posted on 08/10/2023 6:56:06 PM PDT by TigersEye (Woke is a cancer of the mind and humanity)
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To: SeekAndFind

6 posted on 08/10/2023 7:10:19 PM PDT by EasySt (Say not this is the truth, but so it seems to me to be, as I see this thing I think I see. #MAGA-AaA)
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge was chosen.


7 posted on 08/10/2023 7:16:06 PM PDT by McGavin999 ( A sense of humor is a sign of intelligence, leftists have no sense of humor, therefore………)
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To: TigersEye
Come on now, there could be 11 dimensions.

I don't like the defense the President Trump told the Truth from a limited perspective that happened to be wrong.

I don't like that defense because it means the whole concept of the Steal was nothing but a scam on America perpetrated to keep one person in power, while duping a significant portion of the electorate. That doesn't sound like something President Trump would do.

I also don't like the defense that the Steal was actually just a fake to keep President Trump in power concocted by Eastman and America's Mayer, in which they subsequently pulled the wool over the President's eyes.

Call Donald Trump what you want - a braggadocious egotist more interested in his own benefit that his countrymen's - that shoe doesn't fit.

Nor can you say a genius businessman with a track record like his could be suckered in by the likes of the Kraken. So it's not possible to believe he agreed to lies by crackpot attorneys.

The only remaining possibility, as Shetlock Holmes would say, must be the actual Truth: the Steal is Real.
8 posted on 08/10/2023 7:17:49 PM PDT by Observator
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To: Observator

I knew the election was stolen the morning after the election.

I didn’t “think” it was stolen, I didn’t “believe” it was stolen, it wasn’t my “opinion” it was stolen, I KNEW it was stolen.


9 posted on 08/10/2023 7:22:10 PM PDT by TigersEye (Woke is a cancer of the mind and humanity)
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To: SeekAndFind

Interesting that Turley mentions Papal Infallibilty.

Because that’s where these madmen have taken us back to: the Inquisition.

Swear that you believe there was no fraud!

charging him for Thoughtcrime.

America was born from the Enlightment and the Reformation.

The Mad Inquisitor and his overseer the Joker want to take us back before that.


10 posted on 08/10/2023 7:34:37 PM PDT by Regulator (It's fraud, Jim)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think it’s harder to prove that the election was not fraudulent.


11 posted on 08/10/2023 7:39:35 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Civil disobedience by non-compliance; jury and state nullification. )
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To: Taxman

ping


12 posted on 08/10/2023 7:41:19 PM PDT by Taxman (SAVE AMERICA! VOTE REPUBLICAN IN 2023 AND 2024!)
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To: TigersEye
I knew the election was stolen the morning after the election.

Same. I knew with time I'd be able to find social media to validate that sensation but in the moment I felt it loud and clear (problably from above) and yes I took the red pill.
13 posted on 08/10/2023 7:42:11 PM PDT by Observator
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To: grumpygresh
I think it’s harder to prove that the election was not fraudulent.

Great point! Proving a negative is challenging.
14 posted on 08/10/2023 7:43:17 PM PDT by Observator
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To: Observator

LOL Always take the red pill!

If nothing else it probably has pure Antarctic krill oil in it. :)


15 posted on 08/10/2023 8:03:20 PM PDT by TigersEye (Woke is a cancer of the mind and humanity)
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To: SoConPubbie

With this Judge in this court with this jury they will not to prove anything. Trump will be guilty the moment the trial opens


16 posted on 08/10/2023 8:09:22 PM PDT by gibsonguy
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To: All

The Guilt by implication or by association standard being employed by special counsel
Smith against Trump.....could be a dangerous legal standard for Joe Biden.

Heres why.

It now seems clear that Biden has lied to the public for years on critical details of Hunter’s profitable influence peddling scandal.
<><>Biden’s denial of any knowledge or involvement go back to the 2020 presidential debate.
<><>Biden also denied that Hunter Biden received any money from China.
<><>For years, Biden allowed his tax-financed Senate and VP staff, even WH staff, to echo his denials.
<><>Biden has continually opposed any further investigation.

The Washington Post now declares Biden’s denials to be manifestly untrue based on Hunters own admissions to the plea deal court.

Biden knew his denials were untrue, even as he cued his tax financed aides to misinform the public as congressional and federal investigations occurred.

Now, according to special counsel Smith, such knowing lies can be criminal matters, at least in the case of Donald Trump.

For Congress, it could also trigger impeachment inquiries in the case of Joe Biden — and that would make this very personal indeed.


17 posted on 08/10/2023 8:52:16 PM PDT by Liz (More tears are shed over answered prayers than over unanswered ones. St Teresa of Avila)
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To: All

The Bidens, et al, hold we, the people, in complete and utter contempt.


18 posted on 08/10/2023 8:52:40 PM PDT by Liz (More tears are shed over answered prayers than over unanswered ones. St Teresa of Avila)
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To: SeekAndFind

Thursday, August 10

2024 Republican Presidential Nomination Cygnal (R)*

Trump 53, Ramaswamy 11, DeSantis 10, Pence 7, Haley 3, Scott 3, Christie 2, Hutchinson 0, Burgum 0, Suarez 1

Trump +42


19 posted on 08/10/2023 9:47:09 PM PDT by entropy12 (Career politicians like DeSantis build wealth. Trump sacrificed his wealth to serve people.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ping


20 posted on 08/10/2023 10:03:52 PM PDT by murron
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