Posted on 01/26/2023 9:56:03 AM PST by Ozguy1945
Its is Douglas MacArthurs 143rd birthday.
Was he the 1950's equivalent of Donald Trump?
The times when he showed great leadership were many.
He modernised Wrest Point, asking when he had recently begun the task post World War One, "Why are we still preparing for the War Of 1812?"
He resisted Australians who wanted to betray their own country in WW2 and surrender half the continent to Japan above the Brisbane line because he knew the all conquering Japanese were over extended and could be beaten.
He did that aged in his 60s with island hopping strategic brilliance.
In his 70's he was again strategically brilliant with calculated risk at Incheon.
He defied Truman and the chain of command by publicly pushing for victory against a North Korean government whose continued existence still bedevils the world.
At his worst he was bombastic and arrogant alienating many but not all of those around and inder him.
My late friend Lt Rob Iskov, from Australia's 2nd 14th battalion in which my dad served in WW2, said of MacArthur's often maligned arrogance, that at that time, "We had to have a figurehead."
In 1952 MacArthur was keynote speaker at the RNC but was annihilated by Ike in going for the presidency.
Was MacArthur at all Trumpian in publicly taking on Truman?
To what extent are Donald Trump's weaknesses (compared with DeSantis) like those of MacArthur compared with Ike?
“I consider General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower to be one of the most outstanding generals of WWII. There is much to be said of his Presidency, as well.”
FOR ME HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS WAS HIS GREATEST MOMENT.
I RATE TRUMP WAY ABOVE BIDEN AND Harris but way below DeSantis and Gabbard ........
we are allowed to rate these people .......
that’s how we work out who its best to vote for
Below Gabbard? Tulsi Gabbard? Really? OK then.
AWESOME! My wife is from Leyte, but was born MUCH later. Hell, I don’t think her PARENTS were alive when that happened.
FWIW, interesting island. Lots of reminders about battles that took place there. “The battle for hill 47”, and the like. (Not a real battle, just an example).
“I RATE TRUMP WAY ABOVE BIDEN AND Harris but way below DeSantis and Gabbard ........”
I rate you way below most posters on this site, since you can’t discern the difference between action and talk.
We are allowed to rate posters.
That’s how we know who to avoid.
Incorrect. The veterans had already cleared out and were replaced by communists itching for a fight... which they got.
It’s difficult to get past MacArthur sitting on his ass knowing the Japs had attacked Pearl and that Clark was next up...and doing nothing.
It's only difficult when one's understanding of events comes from long-term Leftist brainwashing.
MacArthur's aircraft were in the air at dawn seeking out the expected attackers... but the Japanese never arrived due to bad weather on Formosa preventing their planned pre-dawn takeoff. Low on fuel, the American fighters returned to base.
Clark was a small field without dispersal areas. The lack of dispersal area was a recognized vulnerability and funding had been requested to acquire additional surrounding land to expand the base. The lack of dispersion meant returning aircraft had to be packed in tight on the airstrip for refueling.
In the meantime, the weather on Formosa lifted and the Japanese attack arrived just as the first two or three refueled American fighters were taking off.
What happened at Clark on Dec 8, 1941 was a case of incredibly bad luck for the Americans.
He should have been Court Martialed for dereliction.
Only according to ceaseless Leftist brainwashing.
Instead he bugs out to Australia.
That's more leftist brainwashing. MacArthur was ORDERED by FDR to leave Corregidor. MacArthur refusing a direct order would have been grounds for court martial.
Peleliu was unnecessary
By your leftist induced standard, Iwo Jima should also have been bypassed.
and Halsey recommended that it be called off.
But who was in charge of operations?? Nimitz. Halsey's recommendation to cancel was in order to concentrate on Leyte. That's an example of why Nimitz was overall naval boss because he understood the harassing effect on shipping to and from the Philippines of land based aircraft operating from Peliliu.
MacArthur said it needed to be taken to protect his flank at Leyte...Nonsense...
And Nimitz agreed with MacArthur. A glance at the map, knowing the distances, American supply route, Japanese aircraft ranges and the Japanese ability to replenish land based losses by shuttling aircraft island to island would convince even a novice of the need to take Pelileu.
Tremendous loss of brave Marines taking a worthless island that should have been bypassed.
What about the sailors subsequently saved because their ships weren't attacked from Peliliu? What about the soldiers and airmen in the Philippines who had the supplies they needed because supply ships weren't sunk by Japanese aircraft operation out of Peliliu?? What if a troop transport or two were sunk by aircraft operating out of Peliliu??
Rather than acting like a leftist and blaming MacArthur for an operation he did not command, why not focus on the Navy and Marines? What pre-attack reconnaissance was carried out? How was it interpreted? Why were Marine commanders so complacent that they estimated Pelileu could be taken in four days? Why were they so slow to recognize changed Japanese tactics and adjust?
America was very fortunate to have millions of gallant men and women step up in her hour of need...MacArthur was not one of them.
More leftist brainwashing. There were indeed countless cases of individual gallantry that were never recorded and now all but lost to history with the passage of time. However, at the flag level. There were no flag officers who survived the war that could be argued were more brave than MacArthur.
Yes he was, and a great one at that.
How?
Was incompetent but well connected politically.
I see you have been totally indoctrinated by leftist brainwashing.
His one success was ruling post war Japan.
Correction; one in a long list of successes.
But as a General they wanted him nowhere near Europe.
Who is "they"? Why would Europe even be considered for MacArthur?
They wanted Nimitz to run the Pacific war but politically had to do something with him.
"They" is a very vague pronoun. Who is the "they" that leftists have convinced you so strongly about? Be specific.
Peleleu and Tarawa were both launched to support MacArthur’s efforts plan for the Philippines.
Your leftist brainwashing has been extensive. MacArthur had no command role at any of them. They were naval and marine operations poorly planned and executed.
Of course by leftist reasoning, that the chow hall at Buna received ten packages of spoons for one package of forks was a direct result of MacArthur's incompetence.
Made it longer by wasting valuable combat power on campaigns that did not do anything to bring Japan to it’s knees.
His mother was well connected politically. That is how he got a medal of honor for his incompetent defense of the Philippines and abandoning his men to the Bataan Death March.
He was defeated by a Jap force 1/3 the size of his by his poor generalship and deployment. His air assets were caught on the ground despite 8 hours notice of Pearl Harbor being attacked.
Administering Japan was his sole success.
“They” is George Marshall. And why consider him for Europe? Well, he was there during WWI for starters. The ETO needed serious skilled Generals. He was a primping poser.
The Secretary of War is who. But political pressure forced them to split command of the Pacific war between Navy and Army. But notice nobody put Mac in charge of the entire Pacific war. They knew the Nimitz thrust would be ruined if he got his incompetent hands on it.
Peleleu and Tarawa were indeed launched because of MacArthur’s position in the Philippines. Both were completely unnecessary but for that. Without his distractions, Nimitz would have likely been in position for the bombing of Japan 6 to 9 months earlier.
He was truly America’s most over rated general, outwitted every time he met an enemy, defying direct orders from President Hoover and attacked the bonus marcher camp. Then he directly defied Truman. Thankfully he was fired finally.
“Yes he was, and a great one at that.”
We all have our opinions as flawed as they may be.
Peleliu maybe, but Tarawa was very much a part of Nimitz's plan.
He was a primping poser.
The more I read about WWII and other wars, the more I came to see that an awful lot of generals were posturing popinjays, even some of the ones who got a pass from the media.
I see MacArthur as America’s Montgomery.
And as to your observation about popinjays. Montgomery was portrayed as the genius of El Alamain and that his brilliance defeated Rommel.
We find out decades later that he was provided detailed information about the German forces and exactly plans from the enigma intercepts. But that needed to stay secret so they lauded Monty’s genius mind for the feat.
That’s just one example.
Could you be more specific?
It was before my time, but the Normandy invasion has to be one of his greatest achievements.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/d-day-allies-invade-europe
“Could you be more specific?”
More specific about what? My Post # 13 on this thread gave my opinion, and, by the way, not simply opinion. Post # 13 simply lists known facts about MacArthur.
What else is it that you need to know?
In 1944 when planning in the Pacific was underway, how effective had more than a year of 24/7 aerial bombardment of Germany been at bringing Germany to her knees?
His mother was well connected politically That is how he got a medal of honor.
If only I had a penny for every time I've heard this. Show evidence to back it up.
for his incompetent defense of the Philippines
A double-retrograde maneuver of forces into Bataan, a movement still regarded as masterful and taught at war colleges. You call that incompetent? Then to tie up large Japanese forces, deny the enemy use of Manila bay for four additional months, generally upset the entire Japanese Pacific-Asiatic timetable and cost General Homma his job over displeasure at the trouble caused to Japan by MacArthur. That is what you call incompetence?
Then there is the uncomfortable question of just how long were US forces expected to hold out without resupply on Luzon, one year, two years, three years? Answer that.
and abandoning his men to the Bataan Death March.
Wrong again. Further evidence that you've been brainwashed. MacArthur received a direct order by FDR to leave Corregidor. Refusing would have resulted in a court martial.
He was defeated by a Jap force 1/3 the size of his by his poor generalship and deployment.
Wrong again. The Japanese landed roughly 75K men on Luzon and there were roughly 75K US and Filipino troops on the island. The Filipino units were listed as being at 2/3 strength.
His air assets were caught on the ground despite 8 hours notice of Pearl Harbor being attacked.
Wrong again. They were only on the ground due to the fact that they heeded the warnings and took to the skies at dawn in search of the Japanese attack and eventually had to return to base for refueling. While on the ground refueling is precisely when the much delayed Japanese attackers arrived. Just incredibly bad luck for the Americans.
“They” is George Marshall. And why consider him for Europe? Well, he was there during WWI for starters. The ETO needed serious skilled Generals. He was a primping poser.
If Marshall considered him for the ETO, wouldn't that also have made Marshall incompetent for considering someone you believe to be incompetent for such high position?
The Secretary of War is who. But political pressure forced them to split command of the Pacific war between Navy and Army. But notice nobody put Mac in charge of the entire Pacific war.
The area was simply too vast and diverse to warrant a single command.
They knew the Nimitz thrust would be ruined if he got his incompetent hands on it.
Why would any sane person put a naval commander in charge of an army and why would an army commander be placed in charge of fleet operations.
Peleleu and Tarawa were indeed launched because of MacArthur’s position in the Philippines.
Peleliu yes but not so much Tarawa but in both cases they were under operational command of Nimitz and the marines. MacArthur had nothing to do with the difficulties encountered on both islands.
Both were completely unnecessary but for that.
What island should have been taken instead of Tarawa? Answer that and give your reasons.
Without his distractions, Nimitz would have likely been in position for the bombing of Japan 6 to 9 months earlier.
Even if true, how was that going to bring Japan to her knees any earlier?
He was truly America’s most over rated general, outwitted every time he met an enemy, defying direct orders from President Hoover and attacked the bonus marcher camp. Then he directly defied Truman. Thankfully he was fired finally.
It is difficult to come to grips with the fact that one has been misled his entire life but that is what has happened with you concerning MacArthur.
I recommend going back and reading original accounts and memoirs rather than leftist revisionism.
Not a single fact, just leftist propaganda.
Let’s review the things I said, ok?
Question 01. ) Did he get run out of the Philippines?
Answer 01. ) Yes.
Question 02. ) Did he get run out of South Korea twice?
Answer 02. ) Yes.
Here we can inject his successful plan at Inchon.
Question 03. ) Did he get his butt handed to him by the Chinese communists in North Korea?
Answer 03. ) Yes.
Question 04. ) Did he get fired by then-president Truman?
Answer 04. ) Yes.
True, his Inchon plan was successful but his overall record is dismal, to say the least.
What is it in all of that which you are disputing?
BTW, we can continue his incompetence through his ‘occupation’ of Japan, too, if you would like. For example, letting the ‘living-god-emperor’ stay as the ‘leader’ of Japan after the occupation. That alone has to be one of the biggest blunders in the history of the human race!
Question 01. ) Did he get run out of the Philippines?
Answer 01. ) Yes.
How can you say he was run out of the Philippines when he was obeying a direct order from the president to leave?
Question 02. ) Did he get run out of South Korea twice?
Answer 02. ) Yes.
He was never run out of South Korea. How can you believe such nonsense? He did however kick the communists out of South Korea.
Question 03. ) Did he get his butt handed to him by the Chinese communists in North Korea?
Answer 03. ) Yes.
That is an entirely different matter and part of an entirely different war, a war which was lost in Washington before it even started. Mao never would have attacked without prior assurances from Washington that America would not respond against the mainland of China.
Question 04. ) Did he get fired by then-president Truman?
Answer 04. ) Yes.
Being fired by the red loving useful idiot Truman is nothing to be ashamed of.
It was Eisenhower who brought the hot war to a truce... by threatening what MacArthur wanted, to nuke China.
What is it in all of that which you are disputing?
Read the comments I wrote above.
BTW, we can continue his incompetence through his ‘occupation’ of Japan, too, if you would like. For example, letting the ‘living-god-emperor’ stay as the ‘leader’ of Japan after the occupation. That alone has to be one of the biggest blunders in the history of the human race!
What has gone so badly as a result?
Are you a Chinese troll perhaps? The Emperor has about as much authority as King Charles. One of the biggest blunders in recent human history was the red loving Truman allowing China to go communist, Truman inviting the invasion of South Korea, and not nuking China when they launched a full force attack on American forces.
70 million Chinese would have lived out their lives.
I was going to respond to all of your comments but I can see that you are hopelessly delusional. I feel great sympathy and empathy for you.
You can keep bringing up Truman, others and making excuses but history is history.
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