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To: Cronos; Mark17; MHGinTN; SouthernClaire; Elsie; metmom
“Every one of you” — that includes your infants

Wow! Peter was not talking to infants, but only to those who were intellectually responsible for their own Jewish Ten-Commandment-influenced souls.

Here's what Peter said about you and your catechized superstitions:

2 Peter 3:15-17 (AV):

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;  16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned=undiscipled and unstableillogical wresttwist into foolishness, as theylike Cronos do also the other scriptures, unto their own destructionin the Lake of Fire17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 
That's you, Cronos. Leave that system or die hard and hot, alone. Throw away your torque wrench and get saved by faith, not by wine-soaked waferettes.
25 posted on 01/24/2023 10:15:42 AM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux (Let There Be [God's] Light!))
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To: imardmd1
I read the 'eis' as 'on account of' or 'due to'. The cult of catholiciism uses such things as empowerment schemes, saving no one but always increasing their grip on the lost souls they manipulate for gain/empowerment.

To borrow from Obi Wan, 'The Vatican, a hive of scum and villainy, drenched in sexual degeneracy.'

The Vatican is revealing itself to be the perfect whore sister to Islam, in forming Chrislam.

26 posted on 01/24/2023 10:37:07 AM PST by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: imardmd1

Ouch!


43 posted on 01/25/2023 5:29:42 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: imardmd1

Woah imardmd1 — I referred to the book of acts “In Acts 2:38, “. . . be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . .””

and then you jump to a book written decades later by Peter.

Stick to the same context.

The book of acts clearly refers to “every one of you” — it does not exclude children


54 posted on 01/26/2023 4:06:36 AM PST by Cronos
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To: imardmd1
in Matthew 17:14-18, we are told how Jesus cast out a demon from a young boy because of an appeal by the boy's father:

"When they came to the crowd, a man approached, knelt down before Him, and said, 'Lord, have pity on my son for he is a lunatic and suffers severly...."

And Jesus heals the boy because of the father's faith. Now, obviously, it was not possible for this boy to have faith in Jesus on his own. He was psychologically and spiritually disturbed (whether naturally or supernaturally); yet Jesus used the father's faith to make him whole again. So, if such a thing is possible with demonic possession, why should Baptism be any different?

Many retarded and/or insane people do not have the ability to reason so as to "accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior" (as the Evangelicals say ;-) Yet, didn't Jesus come to save them as well? Don't they need to be Baptized into Christ? (Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27)

Well, if so, then why should we assume that the ability to reason is necessary for Baptism? Why can't babies be Baptized before they reach the age of reason?

Well, an Evangelical might tell you that it's because the ability to reason is necessary before one can sin. And, indeed, that is very true. We Catholics have an old expression:

"If there's no knowledge, then there's no responsibility. If there's no responsibility, then there's no sin."

So, our Evangelical brothers and sisters try to apply this to Baptism. In the case of an infant or a retarded person, they will say that these lack the ability to reason, and therefore they are free of guilt. And, again, that is very true. However, think about what it implies. :-) What this implies is that infants and retarded people do not need a Savior! Which, to us Catholics, is completely ridiculous. :-)

We know from Scripture itself that Christ came to save everybody, including infants and retarded people. He is their Savior just as much as He is the Savior of rational, healthy adults.

So, the real issue with those who deny infant Baptism is that they deny the reality of what we call original sin, something which non-Catholics usually confuse with "original guilt" (which Catholics DO NOT believe in). For example, we do not hold that a child is born guilty of sin. That is not the Catholic position at all. Rather, we believe that the child is personally innocent; however, because of the sin of Adam and Eve, the child is born with a "macula" (in Latin, a "dark spot") -- a lack of the light of God's grace in the soul (something the Virgin Mary did not lack, and so she is the Im-maculate Conception).

This lack of God's light (grace) is why we have an inclination toward sin; and all people (whether they have the ability to reason or not) suffer from it. Yet, in Baptism, we receive the Holy Spirit, and become adopted sons and daughters of God. The light of God's grace dwells in our souls, and so we have the ability to overcome our sinful inclinations and live as the children of God we are called to be.

And this is why we believe that Baptism is a Sacrament. It is not something which we do to ourselves, but it's something that is done to us by God through the ministry of His Church. We merely accept it; or someone else accepts it for us.

55 posted on 01/26/2023 4:09:50 AM PST by Cronos
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To: imardmd1; MayflowerMadam
And more evidence that infants were baptised well before Constantine's birth

"And they shall baptise the little children first. And if they can answer for themselves, let them answer. But if they cannot, let their parents answer or someone from their family." Hippolytus of Rome, Apostolic Tradition, 21 (c. A.D. 215).

"[T]herefore children are also baptized." Origen, Homily on Luke, XIV (A.D. 233).

"Baptism is given for the remission of sins; and according to the usage of the Church, Baptism is given even to infants. And indeed if there were nothing in infants which required a remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous." Origen, Homily on Leviticus, 8:3 (post A.D. 244).

"But in respect of the case of the infants, which you say ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, and that the law of ancient circumcision should be regarded, so that you think one who is just born should not be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day...And therefore, dearest brother, this was our opinion in council, that by us no one ought to be hindered from baptism...we think is to be even more observed in respect of infants and newly-born persons…" Cyprian, To Fidus, Epistle 58(64):2, 6 (A.D. 251).

56 posted on 01/26/2023 4:13:46 AM PST by Cronos
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