My son, on the other hand, was raised by me, a full-time single father from the time my son was 2 until he went off to college at 18. He missed school less than 5 days in his entire life, played varsity football and baseball, graduated 28th out of 530 in his HS class, was/is an Eagle Scout and was accepted and went to the University of Illinois in Champaign, IL a very, very good school. He was universally praised by others, (friends, relatives, coaches, scout leaders) as a “good kid” and I have always been very proud of him. Good Conservative loves Trump guy. It breaks my heart to see him and my grandkids in this situation. I don’t know what happened to him.
My son came back from college, all his friends had moved on or moved away and he was understandably lonely while getting readjusted to his new location. SWMBO was a friend of his cousin's wife (another SWMBO) and they were introduced. My read on it all was that she saw what a great prospect he was and got her hooks into him. My one area of fault while raising him was I did not date much while I was raising him and bring a lot of women into his life and did not train him in the ways of the female sex, especially the desperate to marry, staring down age 30, SWMBO types. My son’s mother was an awful alcoholic and is/has been no help to him in many areas of his life. I was mother and father to him. His mother is in no shape to be of any help in this situation even now.
I know my son was a grown man when he met her, but I am so sorry I wasn’t watching more closely at the time. I fear for the children and my son and their future. When I have visited with the grandkids SWMBO has to be there or my son. As if I am on probation and need supervision. I have NEVER been allowed to be alone with any of my grandchildren for more than a few minutes. There is NOTHING…NOTHING about me, or in my past, that necessitates this.
Recently (last July) in an enraged fit, she banned me from coming over or having any contact with the grandkids for my horrible act of ignoring her. How dare I ignore her! I always saw my grandkids at least once a month if not 2 or 3 times a month. Now it has been almost 4 months. Missed the first birthday in September out of the 27 birthdays the 3 grandkids have had. My birthday in August was completely ignored. SWMBO is using the children as a weapon and has taken them, for all intents and purposes, as hostages.
My grandchildren and I, (1 boy, 2 girls) have ALWAYS had a very close and wonderful relationship. They are/were the joy of my life. I love children anyway and when they came along, I was in heaven. I wonder at times if she was jealous of how well the children, and I get along and how much they love me. What she is doing is hurting everyone, the kids, me, and my son but he can’t seem to muster the guts to stand up to her. It’s like he has Stockholm Syndrome and sides with his terrorist captor. He may even be an abused husband, as the things I’ve seen in person are probably not even close to what happens when I’m not there.
I have tried…. over and over and over and over again …to make things right with her over the years. Invited her out for coffee so we could talk over and resolve our differences, bestowed very nice gifts on her and the children, made sure I treated her mother and her mother’s husband with respect, been as supportive as I can be in any area support was needed. Her mother sees the kids a lot more than I ever did/do btw. She misses all most all of my family’s large gatherings. The best compliment, acknowledgment, I have ever gotten out of SWMBO is: “I don’t DISLIKE you.”.
We are trying family counseling. My son and I have gone over the last month or so, but I don’t even know if SWMBO has seen the counselor. SWMBO and my son are masters of passive-aggressive (and sometimes just aggressive) manipulation. I don’t know where the counseling is going.
The laws in my state (AZ) only enforce grandparents’ rights is very narrow circumstances. If a couple have divorced or one parent has died, etc. I don’t fit into any of applicable categories.
I’ve thought of suing SWMBO for intentional infliction of emotional distress (which is horrific & extremely painful) and consulting a family law attorney to see what can be done. I see evidence of abusive anger and actions by SWMBO and high frustration in my son’s behavior. SWMBO’s mother is useless for any help and the fact she moved FURTHER away from SWMBO and her own grandkids may be telling.
I know I’ll get hit from all angles on this good and bad. I don’t care. Any suggestions, ideas, referrals to legal contacts are welcome.
I will walk through fire for my wonderful grandchildren and I will NEVER, EVER give up on them and their future, EVER!
What does SWMBO stand for? Sorry for my ignorance.
Stinks, I know...you want to fix something you know isn’t right, but you don’t have any control over.
DO NOT call Children’s Services under any circumstances, unless, of course, you have hard evidence the kids are being abused, neglected or are in physical danger. That would forever alter any chance of a relationship with her, your grandkids and probably son. In fact, CS would probably find little wrong in the home, based on their standards, and possibly terminate any contact between you and your grandchildren. Believe me, CS will do all they can to prevent any separation between children and parents, they are terrible and protect parents more than kids.
Your son is probably a victim of a narcissistic relationship and the mental abuse doesn’t end with separation or divorce, it only gets worse. For now, the only thing you can do is tolerate her and love your grandkids and son. You could possibly keep a diary with dates and events if the relationship goes bad between her and son, plus it will help you get things off your chest. Do not tell your son about the diary, he has been emotionally conditioned be her.
Remember, a son may have many wives, but only one mother, in your case, only one father and he will eventually turn to you for support.
I don't speak Acronym, how about typing in Engrish?.....Sheesh!
Maybe the problem lies in the fact she doesn't speak Acronym? Try English and see what happens..........
With that being said, I think your best bet is to talk to a licensed marriage counselor or psychologist rather than a bunch of strangers on the internet............but that's just my opinion which means nothing.......
In all honesty, if my in-law came to visit my children in my home and continued to ignore me even though s/he knew it upset me, I just might reach a point where I had enough, too.
Add to this the same in-law pulling aside my husband to bad mouth me in the name of love and proteching my children, and I would probably reach a point where the in-law's presence in my home and among my family was too toxic and would implement a time-out.
Like it or not, it behooves you to remember this is not your marriage, that is not your home and they are not your children.
If you visit with your grandchildren once a month, on average, why not be cordial to their mother as you build a strong bond with the children? It may take practice, but it just might be worth it.
Anyway, just my $.02. I wish all of you the very best.
I would agree with documenting everything and contacting a lawyer for legal advice. Whether you choose to act on it or not is totally up to you, but the advice is needed.
Be aware though, that as batcrap crazy as she is, if you really push things with her, she could very likely accuse you of sexual abuse with the kids to get you out of the picture permanently and to ruin your life in general.
I had a sister-in-.law who decided to divorce my brother and she accused him of molesting her daughter, just to try to keep him away from her. And she admitted that to me herself. It wasn’t just an assumption on my part of why she accused him of it.
Keep that in mind when talking to the lawyer and ask him about the ramifications of that.
In the meantime, pray like never before. God can often provide solutions that we never would have expected.
Your daughter-in-law has some very serious issues to deal with from her past, and until and unless she addresses them, it’s unlikely things will change for you.
I will pray for a resolution to this problem.
Sad story. She is depressed. She is suffering and the children are suffering. The solution is to do what the Hoarders tv show does: bring in a therapist and an organizer to clean up the house and to find out why she cannot clean. Heartbreaking for everyone involved.
My sister in…no,!that’s too kind. My brothers wife is like that. I’ve known her longer than my brother has and she has always hated me.
She has done a great job of training all of her offspring to hate every member of my family.
I just found out that one of them told my mom, her grandmother that she wasn’t being invited to her wedding.
Sadly we thought she was the most well adjusted.
“She tries to be extremely provocative in order to get me to respond and get myself in trouble.”
And another thought, I would be extremely careful about being alone with your grandkids, in fact I advise you to not be. She could manipulate the kids and get them to say something that could incriminate you. Be very, very careful.
This is why I’m still single. If the slightest thing sets my spidey sense off, NOPE!
There is nothing you can do about it, if he puts up with it, then all you are likely to do is futher be isolated from your son and grandchildren.
At most you can talk to your Son, but end of the day, its his life to lead. If he lets her walk all over him, there is little you can do, other than let him know he doesn’t have to take it...
However, for all you know, he may enjoy it... unless you have heard him say otherwise. Sounds to me, he’s use to dealing with abusive and less than dependable women in his life, since you admit his mother is an alcoholic, so this situation may be what he expects and desires.
Or could be since his mother was so absentee and useless, that he things any mother in their lives is better than none.
I won’t speak for your son, he can speak for himself. What does he have to say about the situation? All you can do is be there for your son and your grandchildren as best you can... eventually they will grow up and believe it or not, will see the light of day about their mother if she is indeed as bad as you say.... and will reach out to you.
Okay, here is some tough love. She holds all the cards, if you want to see your grandchildren and have any kind of relationship with your son. It’s up to you to make amends.
She is your grandchildren’s mother and your sons wife. It doesn’t matter if she is crazy, dirty, lazy, mean, ect. She is who your son chose.
It also sounds like you are not completely innocent in this situation.
If I invited someone to my house and they purposely ignored me, that might be the last time they were invited back too.
I have been through this for years with my own in-laws. Although, I never stopped them from seeing the kids, I stopped them from coming to my house. My husband had to take the kids to them.
I told her until she can stop saying nasty things about me, my house, my job, my cooking, ect, she is not welcome anymore.
My husband also had a strict rule that she would not be allowed to say bad things about me, especially in front of my kids, or they would leave.
I didn’t see or talk to her for almost 5 years.
It was her that had to make the effort, and she did after her her husband died.
We actually have a decent relationship now, and that might not have happened if she didn’t apologize.
I’m sure she thought he would get rid of me too, but we have been married 28 years now.
In fact, he is the only one of her kids that didn’t get divorced. So, don’t count on her going anywhere.
Call Child Protective Services if you fear the children are living in a dangerous or harmful environment. If the house or kitchen is filthy, those are grounds for action.
Stories like this make me glad that all my daughters in law and son in law, grandchildren, and those great grandchildren that are over 11, are all fully armed deplorables...
First, she’s projecting onto you, the worst qualities of one or both men who messed up her childhood. So, she’s damaged and does not know how to restrain the evil — which, if not restrained, passes through us and goes, we know not where. We all need to learn to say, “Stop here,” to pain.
Especially when children are a part of the family. They’re emotionally defenseless. Your d-i-l was defenseless once.
Don’t sic the govt on her, this will only enrage her and the kids will be hurt more than she will.
Pray for her, as you should pray for your son and the children. Ignore her irrational attempts to “protect” the kids from you. She may be pouring poison in your son’s ear, saying things about you that are untrue, and eventually this will affect him. But she can’t stop you from seeing him, so spend some extra time with him. Don’t lose him to her image of you.
Your son could assert himself if he truly wanted to. So far, he doesn’t. He probably did a risk-benefit analysis and with more information than you have, he decided not to risk it.
Make sure that he still considers you a person he can turn to, if he ever does decide to take back control of his life.
Manipulative people often try to isolate a person, and will chew like rats at the bonds between their victim and his loved ones.
Say nothing against her to him, but maintain and strengthen the bond with him.
The kids will soon be rebelling, and until they do that you can’t help them directly. When they are fed up — they’ll probably be confused, miserable, troubled — and there’s almost no way you can prevent that. Kids with perfect parents can be just as afflicted. When they’re old enough to come to you, be a sounding board.
Right now, tread as carefully as a hostage negotiator. Do not antagonize her. She could be worse than you know. The situation could get far worse. Alienation is bad; she may be capable of atrocities, for all you know. Defer to your son on this, he knows her better than you do.
Pity her, pray, and bide your time. Be an example of sanity and patience to the children.
Sorry to say, the real problem isn’t your daughter-in-law, it’s your son. He has no courage. He is unwilling to try to handle the situation, for fear of what happens if she goes on a rampage.
So sorry to hear your predicament, Joe (not the bad Joe).
Sounds like you were a devoted father.
I have quite a bit going on right in these few days, but would like to read more.
In some ways, sounds like me! LOL But in many, sounds like my old sister-in-law. Or maybe my maternal aunt (yes, she’s a nut you’d better stay away from)!
Suffice to say my SIL did NOTHING for the kids, while my brother had to take them for their activities, etc. Meanwhile she did nothing for income (unqualified for anything but MW) and my bro had to eke out what he could with his difficult professional situation (long story in itself). On top of that, she had champagne tastes including insisting on the best from Rodeo Drive.
I pray you can get a decent conclusion from this. I’ll read more later.
Boundaries.
Create your own.
Boundaries usually begin with “I”
...I don’t want to do this, or that
...I do want to do this or the other
...I don’t wish to be spoken to this way or that way
Fill in those answers and you’re half way there.
This will guide you where you should and should not be and conversations you choose for YOU. Boundaries are never about what others can and say and do, they have their own responsibilities.
The next thing I STRONGLY suggest is to do some serious reading about narcissist and borderline personalities.(NPD/BPD)
For a good book,I recommend this...
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Caretaking-Borderline-Narcissist-Drama/dp/1442238321
...read the description and reviews
My point in all this is this woman behaves as a (NPD/BPD).
When you understand them you can shield yourself with your own personal boundaries.
Hopefully, once you know more, you’ll be able to help him be strong also. One thing to NEVER do is educate her that you’re on to her games and NEVER call her a NPD/BPD. ...ever.
There are two outcomes that are most common. One is that nothing changes...everyone continues to play their “role” in her crazy world. The other is that the empath creates boundaries of self preservation and this usually results in what’s known as narcissistic abandonment...suddenly the NPD/BPD walks out of the relationship. “I never want to see you in my house again” ...sometimes spouses leave relationships.
What is most important to be aware of physical harm that is brewing and be safe.
Sadly, NPD/BPD is mostly not curable, the core of which is based on self-loathing. But while you can’t change her, family members can create their own boundaries.
At both Home Depot and Lowes’s they sell 24” 2x4 cut-offs for very little. You need to tool on down there and buy you one.
Bring it home and plant it upside your nutless son’s temple.
He’ll thank you for it later.