STOP! READ AND FULLY UNDERSTAND THE MANUAL BEFORE USING THIS FIREARM
Posted on 10/28/2021 8:31:54 AM PDT by servo1969
The mystery to me is how one single live cartridge could have been there in the cylinder in just the right place to go into battery when the hammer was cocked.
My first theory was that the crew failed shoot all the rounds in the revolver when they took it out for plinking, leaving the live round ready to go into the battery.
But that would have left empties in the cylinder; if the empties were ejected - they have to be ejected one a time through the loading gate - they should have caught the live round. Even if they didn’t, that should not have left the live round in a position to go into battery when Baldwin cocked it.
My current theory is the revolver had dummy cartridges in it in addition to the live round. This means that you can’t tell the firearm is loaded with a live round at a glance. You have to open the loading gate and check the cylinder.
But that begs the question of how the live round got in there. Was a live round mixed in with the dummies when it was loaded? And, again, why was it in position to go into battery?
Baldwin, as producer, is ultimately responsible for the safety of his crew and the set. He’s also the guy who fired the deadly shot. He needs to be properly punished. The armorer is also liable. If nothing else, she lost control of the props, allowing this incident. She should have had control of he prop guns at all times and she, not the assistant director, should have handed the firearm to Baldwin.
Now that they know what the gun looks like, did the cops put out an all-points bulletin?
STOP! READ AND FULLY UNDERSTAND THE MANUAL BEFORE USING THIS FIREARM
.45 Colt (the 1911 fires .45 ACP) is a very common round and available at most gun stores. There is also a large community of Cowboy Action Shooter who create a demand for it.
“Old style SA revolvers should always be loaded with the firing pin on an empty chamber..”
Old style yes...new style not necessary.
I’ll be happy to help it hide out.
No; the article explained quite clearly. It is not so simple as that. There is liability all over the place. The liability of the guy who pulled the trigger is probably least of all. Baldwin-actor may walk. Baldwin-producer will almost certainly be liable at least for wrongful death because of negligence. The gun-wrangler chick may well meet the standard of gross negligence. The AD may be found liable for simple negligence. Somebody needs to go to jail for this, but we don’t have enough information to make that call.
Just hating Alec Baldwin is a stupid way to do law. Trust me, you do not want unpopularity to become the jurisprudential norm in this country.
“he is going to be sued out of existence by the family of Halyna Hutchins”
I’m betting there’s no lawsuit, think about it...a Clinton organization lawyer is going to sue a Clinton organization spokesperson? Not going to happen. There will be an insurance settlement, and perhaps, a cash transfer, but there won’t be a lawsuit to break Baldwin’s bank account. That’s not how these folks play.
You are confusing me here. I have half a dozen vintage revolvers and somehow I can tell if they are loaded with cartridges that still have bullets in them or cartridges that are blanks without taking them out of the gun. I guess that must be because of all the training that I have had, or maybe I actually am a genius. LOL!
And lastly blanks:
Yes. Mistakes in procedures. Regardless, two questions remain: (1) How did a live round get in there, and (2) why wasn't the gun dry-fired?
Alec Baldwin in a western, using a cross-draw rig. That does not compute. This project was cursed from its inception.
Are you taking into account dummy rounds? Those look like they have bullets in them, and are used for a realistic look from the front of the gun.
IMO,The armorer should have handed the weapon to him empty and allowed him to load it himself. I don't know how many times I've been handed a gun with the breech closed and was told "I already checked it". I immediately opened it up before taking a step and checked it myself. Arguing amongst ourselves about who is responsible after the body is on the ground is fruitless. If you are holding the gun, you are responsible for what was in it.
True life story from me. I was in Basic Training in 1971 and we were in training with the M-16. We had training with blanks in the field with the end caps attached to the barrels to make the gun eject and reload with more pressure available from the blanks. Without the end cap, it would often not cycle the round and jam. It also reduced the amount of debris coming out of the barrel.
After our training, the drill sergeants used their weapons with live ammo in full auto. They had checked out several cases of ammo to waste shooting trees. When it was over, they picked several of us to clean 2 weapons instead of just our own. I was picked to clean 2. Leaving the training, they ejected the Magazine and opened the bolt to be checked by 3-4 drill sergeants out of about 8, as we turned in our and the Drill sergeants weapons. The bolts being locked open, they used a ramrod of some sort to clear the barrels.
When we got back to the barracks, we were reissued our own weapon and I was issued a spare to clean that was used by a drill sergeant. We carried them into the mess hall to clean on fold out tables. As we began cleaning them, A loud boom rang out and I felt a pain in my side like being hit with a hammer. The guy right behind me somehow had a blank round in a closed chamber and somehow the trigger was pulled. It blew a hole in my T shirt about the size of a silver dollar and burn marks were around the hole. The barrel was about 6 inches from my waist. How many times had the weapon changed hands from the field to the Mess hall? Was it a soldiers rifle or a drill sergeant's? How many checks had the rifle gone through since shooting blanks in the field? Did it have live rounds in it before this incident? I was told I'm a worthless puke and they would investigate the incident. For me it doesn't really matter because I would have been dead if it was a live round. For me, the guy cleaning the weapon should not have touched it until he opened the bolt and checked the weapon with his own eyes. How can you pull the trigger on a weapon you haven't personally checked? Could have blamed the people checking in the field. Someone could have pocketed a couple of blanks and added them after they were checked. When all is said and done it was the guy behind me that pulled the trigger with a round in the chamber.
I'm sure there are 5 people on this movie set saying they should have had blanks in this pistol, but Baldwin was the trigger puller. IMO, he was responsible for what came out of the barrel. If he was handed a gun and "Cold" was shouted, Baldwin was still responsible for pulling the trigger while pointing the weapon at a person.
All guns are always loaded.
Never point it at something you don't want to shoot.
Never pull the trigger at something you don't want to kill.
Try this on for size:
“Mr Prosecutor, my friend handed me the gun and said it was empty. So I pointed it at him and pulled the trigger. It’s his fault he’s dead so you can’t charge me with anything.”
L
Baldwin was practicing a cross draw. So the hammer was down. You don’t holster an SAA with the hammer cocked.
The real key to this thing is “How the hell did the live cartridge get into the Cylinder and How did that Chamber get into that position?”
Typically, an SAA is carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. That’s the source of John Wayne’s comment about loading six (”If you think you need six, load six.”).
Typically, when loading an SAA, you bring the hammer to half-cock, open the loading gate, and put in one round. Then you skip a chamber, and load the remaining four. Then you bring the hammer to full cock and lower it. This rotates the empty chamber under the hammer and you have five rounds. IF you slip while lowering the hammer, it falls on an empty chamber - no problem.
So I don’t know if they had dummy cartridges in the SAA (I think they did) and whether they loaded five or six (I am figuring five). But somehow, in the loading process, the live round was positioned to come into battery when Baldwin cocked the pistol.
I started out with “it was accident caused by not properly clearing the gun after shooting,” but now my brain is going all Agatha Christie on me, ‘cuz it is getting hard to see how that was an accident.
I wonder if his hold was ghetto-side-aim? It gets whackier by the day.
Baldwin is the producer and ultimately responsible for the safety of the set, competence of the crew, etc. He also fired the shot.
It’s all on him.
Or, as the saying goes, blame the finger, not the trigger.
None of 'em even tried to run away from home.
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