Image from radical gunnuttery, scaled by Dean Weingarten
Posted on 03/12/2021 5:34:30 AM PST by marktwain
Image from radical gunnuttery, scaled by Dean Weingarten
Constitutional Carry has become a mainstream movement. The term means a states laws concerning the carry of weapons approximates the state of the law when the Second Amendment was ratified in 1791. At that time, no permits were required to carry weapons, openly or concealed.
17 states have restored a reasonable facsimile of Constitutional Carry. Vermont always had Constitutional Carry. Serious efforts are underway to restore Constitutional Carry in three other states in 2021, with various states of possibility in in twenty other states.
Given the coming predominance of Constitutional Carry, what impact does it have on those with permits? How do Constitutional Carry states treat reciprocity issues?
Are permits still useful with Constitutional Carry?
Reciprocity is generally not an issue in Constitutional Carry states, because carrying a loaded handgun, openly or concealed is legal in most public places, most of the time.
However, the answers are not as simple and clear cut as first they might appear. Some states have minor cut-outs which allow carry with permits in some places where carry without permits is prohibited. For example, in Arizona, a permit is required to legally carry in a bar. While Michigan is not a Constitutional Carry state yet, a permit is required to openly carry in a school, where concealed carry is prohibited.
There are three Constitutional Carry states which limit Constitutional Carry to residents.
North Dakota and Wyoming limit Constitutional Carry to residents only. This is a highly controversial and dubious distinction. It is likely to be challenged under the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution, Fourteenth Amendment. No court cases under the equal protection clause are in progress, regarding Constitutional Carry, to my knowledge.
Permits from most states are recognized by most states, making a concealed carry permit a useful item when a person exercises their Second Amendment rights across state lines.
All 17 states which had a permit system in place before they restored Constitutional Carry have kept their permit system in place for those who find a permit useful for a number of reasons.
Vermont does not issue a permit. States cannot honor a permit which does not exist.
Of the two Constitutional Carry states which claim to limit Constitutional Carry to residents, North Dakota recognizes permits from 37 states.
Wyoming Recognizes permits from 40 states.
State law and reciprocity status are constantly changing. The following interpretations of reciprocity were obtained from online sources, and are subject to change and error. It is recommended that persons traveling to or through other states check their reciprocity law online before traveling.
The author is not a lawyer. This article is not legal advise.
Here is the reciprocity status for the 18 Constitutional Carry states:
Alaska - honors all other states permits.
Arizona - honors enhanced Resident and Non-Resident permits from Idaho, and all permits from all other states.
Arkansas - honors all other states permits.
Idaho - honors all other states permits.
Kansas - honors all other states permits.
Kentucky - honors all other states permits.
Maine - honors resident permits from 27 states. Those are:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia,, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming.
Maine does not honor permits from 21 states:
California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, West Virginia, or Wisconsin.
Mississippi - honors all other states permits.
Missouri - honors all other states permits.
Montana - honors most other states permits. Does not honor permits from:
Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island.
New Hampshire - honors permits from 28 states. Those are:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia and Wyoming.
New Hampshire does not honor permits from 20 states. They are:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, or Wisconsin.
North Dakota - honors permits from most states. North Dakota does not honor permits from 10 states. They are:
California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, or Rhode Island.
Oklahoma - honors all other states permits.
South Dakota - honors all other states permits.
Utah - honors all other states permits.
West Virginia, - honors permits from most states. West Virginia does not honor permits from:
California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, or Rhode Island or Washington.
Wyoming - honors permits from most states. Wyoming does not honor permits from 13 states. They are:
California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, or Washington.Vermont - Does not have a permit system, and does not honor permits from any other state. As a Constitutional Carry state, it is not against the law to carry a weapon, openly or concealed, if there is no intent to commit a crime.
©2021 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.
Gun Watch
Is this referring to a right protected by The Constitution of the United States of America?
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Yes? Then it applies to every state. Period.
Like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, right to petition government, protection against unreasonable search and seizure, protection from warrants without reasonable cause, etc.
I say yes. I live in Arkansas (Constitutional Carry State) and have a CCP so I can legally carry when visiting Grand Kids in Louisiana.
Well, we’ll know in the very foreseeable future if Trump’s Supreme Court picks were worth all that political capital that was expended to put them on the court. If the Court can make all states accept the homosexual marriage licenses issued in VT, CA and NY, then the Court can - and SHOULD - make all states accept gun licenses - even those that are essentially pro forma and/or Constitutional - from each other on the same principle.
But, don’t hold your breath. That’s not going to happen because the Chamber of Commerce doesn’t care about your 2nd Amendment rights and they’re the ones who picked those three Justices.
That assumes that the political class upholds the Constitution. As we speak....Freedom of speech? Not any more. Freedom of religion. Sometimes. Freedom of the press. Not any more. Unreasonable search and seizure. Remember LTG Flynn and the FISA Court? The Constitution unfortunately means what the elites think it means. Yes...this is a very dangerous situation for sure.
No SCOTUS cases on point? I would think someone would have tested this vis a vis the Full Faith and Credit clause.
Of the two Constitutional Carry states which claim to limit Constitutional Carry to residents, North Dakota recognizes permits from 37 states.Wyoming Recognizes permits from 40 states.
Then you write:
Here is the reciprocity status for the 18 Constitutional Carry states:
Followed by a state-by-state rundown of how many other state permits that state recognized.
Presumably 16 of those 18 Constitutional Carry states allow non-residents to Constitutionally Carry within their state, so why would they need to recognize any other state's permit?
Now, there are some states that require that another state recognize their permit before they will recognize the other state's permit, but other than that what am I missing here?
Nobody has been brave enough to test the law.
You'd have to have a valid permit from your home state, travel to another state that doesn't recognize your state's permit, and get arrested for possession of a concealed firearm in order to have a case that could eventually work its way up to SCOTUS.
Are you volunteering to travel to New York City and get arrested for illegally carrying a concealed firearm?
There was a case in 2013 of a woman, Shaneen Allen, who had a permit to carry a firearm in her home state of Pennsylvania, but took a wrong turn in Philly and accidently got stuck on a bridge and had to drive into New Jersey to turn around, where she was arrested for illegal possession of a firearm.
She struck a plea deal with New Jersey, then Governor Krispy Kreame issued her a full pardon.
So that could have been a Full Faith and Credit case, but was not pursued.
NH accepts permits from a lot of places but not any Northeast state. That’s kind of funny.
I spent a year in NJ — went into NY twice and that was 2 times too many. If ever there was a city that was the armpit of the USA it is NYC.
The only place worse is Baltimore.
As mentioned, there are some cut-outs and exceptions where having a permit makes a difference.
Also, editing error: The article says three Constitutional Carry states limit it to residents, then it says two.
It was found Idaho had changed their law from only residents to everyone, but the first sentence mentioning three states was missed in the edit.
Not a lawyer, but it seems pretty clear to me (if the Constitution still holds any sway):
Article IV
Section 1.
Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.
Section 2.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.
You are aware that the Federal Gun Free School Zone statue, with modifications by individual states, only grants an exception to the Gun Free School Zone statute to residents of that state with a concealed weapons permit.
Out-of-state visitors are not granted an exception to the Gun Free School Zone statute when visiting another state, even with a validly recognized out-of-state permit.
yes it does.
It seems pretty clear to me as well, but you are welcome to test your theory in court.
I'm not willing.
There are exceptions. In Kansas a 14 year old can get a learners permit and a 15 year old can get a restricted license. Try driving on those in Missouri and you’ll get a ticket.
Out-of-state visitors are not granted an exception to the Gun Free School Zone statute when visiting another state, even with a validly recognized out-of-state permit.
That is a disputed interpretation. I do not know of any court cases testing it.
The first premise, that the exception only applies to residents of the particular state, is mistaken, as many states offer non-resident permits. The federal law does not specify the person licensed has to be a resident of the state, as far as I can determine.
As to whether "licensed by the state" applies to reciprocity, where the state recognizes licenses granted by other states, there is some ambiguity.
This scholarly article from 2017 explores the issues involved.
D. Conclusion The ATF's proffered interpretation of the term "licensed ... by the State" in the Gun-Free School Zones Act relies on an assumption that the term "licensed by," when followed by "the state" or reference to some other governmental unit, requires some licensee-specific affirmative act of the licensing state (or other governmental unit). However, the use of the term"licensed by the state," and correlative terms, are not so restricted.
It will probably take court cases to sort this out. I would be very interested to know of prosecutions which have occurred, of a person with a permit recognized by the state in which the prosecution happened.
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