Another burst of nuttiness (hopefully the last for a while)

Self | 1/21/'21 | Zionist Conspirator

[Cronos]

Noahide laws -->

The “Noahide Laws” supposedly have their origin in Genesis 9. Let’s read what it actually says. I’m reading the first seven verses:

1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”

I don’t know about you, but these verses say NOTHING about:

Idolatry (if you find it, please show it to me)
Not to curse God (where does it say that?)
Establish courts of justice (are you kidding me???)
Not commit adultery, bestiality, or sexual immorality — OK, this one is not found in the first seven verses but it might be referring to the sin of Ham (Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside) in verse 22. There are some who say that, “seeing his father naked” is code for having sex with Noah’s wife. In other words, Ham committed incest. But the evidence for this is wanting.
Not to steal (again, where is that found???)
Not to eat flesh from a torn living animal (say whaaaat???) It says not to eat meat with blood in it.

In short, the “Noahide Laws” are an invention of human origin.

People who don’t read their Bibles are susceptible to this kind of farce because it sounds Biblical but it’s NOT.

[Cronos]

I thought you were Rabbinical Jewish. Or are you a Noahide?

The Noahide "laws" are found in the Babylonian Talmud -- note the Bablyonian Talmud, a source of your Oral Torah

[Cronos]

As a matter of fact, the very concept of "religion" as a tiny little compartment separated from the rest of life is troubling. The only true Theocracy that has ever existed is that of the Jews, and there is no Hebrew word for "religion" (they had to adopt the Persian word dat). How can there be separation of religion and state if there is no such thing as "religion" as a special category?

this is well covered in Tom Holland's "Dominion" novel -- worth a read

However note that

1. separation of Church and state is exclusive to Christianity and was emphasized in post Calvinist Christianity

2. There is no separation of religion and state in either Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or Shintoism

3. There have been many theocracies besides that of the Jews -

• Old Kingdom Egypt - way before the Exodus WAS a theocracy. The Pharoah was the literal son of Ra
• The Japanese emperor until the 7th century was the theocratic ruler
• Tibet was a theocracy under the Dalai Lama until 1959
• the Caliphates were theocracies
• The "Ram Rajya" of the Hindus was a pure theocracy

And those are just a few.

[Phinneous]

Sorry for the delay-- busy week and getting over covid, Baruch Hashem. I found an updated flow chart for you. I'm sure you've heard of the classical scriptural proofs Torah Jews use. There are a lot of summaries. Here is one such compilation. Shavua tov.

https://www.aishdas.org/student/oral.htm

[Cronos]

That's a flow chart, not proofs.

Furthermore, these aren't even giving details of WHY the new fangled "Noahide laws" were invented in the 600s in the Babylonian Talmud.

They aren't in scripture and weren't mentioned by anyone prior to 132 AD

Net, net, the Noahide movement is a middle Ages Baghdadi invention.

Furthermore, the entire Rabbinical Judaic movement is 4 decades younger than the Jesus-movement Jewish sect (called Christianity)

[Cronos]

So are you
1. Jewish - religious wise I mean
2. Messianic Jewish (I doubt this, but just asking)
3. Noahcide

[Phinneous]

Torah-observant Jew.
A further label would be Lubavitcher chassid.

I figured you are Evangelical....which branch?

Hat-tip Emo Philips for the best joke about denominations ever:

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2005/sep/29/comedy.religion

[Cronos]

Hassids are very interesting folks, have you had the pleasure of visiting sites in Belarus/Ukraine/Poland.

What I find the most fascinating is between the various schools - on the importance of emotions. Fascinating

[Cronos]

In the 80s I had the pleasure of visiting sites in Iraq and in the 90s in India. To me it was fascinating to see and actually meet ancient communities there - of not only Jews but Mandaens, Zoraostrians, Assyrian Christians, etc. etc.

Besides the visit to Kresy/Polin when the quarantines finally get lifted, I would also suggest visits to Kochi in southern India - the synagogue there with a community history dating back to 500 BC (as I’ve noted in my other posts) is something the West forgets - thinking that Judaism and Christianity are purely “European/Western religions”

[Phinneous]

My doc is an Afghani “Son of Solomon.”
I’m sure you’re also a fan of the Sunken Civ threads posted on FR.

[Cronos]

Yes I am. It always pains me when other people here on FR dismiss Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan and don’t seem to recall their ancient importance to the Judaic faith and its offshoots.

you may have heard of the Indian and Pakistani rumour “oh, Jesus visited India” - which has a Muslim pir dargah in Kashmir. The surprising part about this is that it references another itenerrant “Messiah”-like figure from the 1st cnetury, but from the latter half of the 1st century and not from the Jewish tradition at all - rather to Apolonius of Tyana. Visited that place - not impressive.

[21twelve]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/how-christianity-came-to-india-kerala-180958117/

An acquaintance of mine married an Indian gal (Christian). There is an early church in India named after Saint Thomas. They say he traveled to India in 52 AD.

[Cronos]

I visited the shrine where his relic is kept!

oh -that reminds me of my adventure motorcycling days - this was the 4th one in India -- from Bombay down south to Kanyakumari (the extreme southern tip of India) and back -- this was before my Bombay - Ladakh (extreme northern tip) and Calcutta to Arunachal. If any of you are motorbikers, I recommend it.

From Bombay to Kerala me and my Indian biking buddies went through 4 states -- and each one of those spoke a completely different language, with different scripts!

Above Maharashtra, so Marathi

Below Kannada in Karnataka

Below Malayalam in Kerala

Below Tamil

My Indian friends told me that after the second state they didn't have any common language to communicate with the locals - and these guys were multi-lingual!

anyway, to Kerala

We took a break on the backwaters

And the ancient synagogues in Kochi

definitely worth visiting - southern india is magical.

[Phinneous]

Emotion? Polish chassidim.

Chabad? (Russian) It’s an acronym for
Chochma (the genesis of an idea)
Binah (Wisdom, contemplation)
Daas (internalization of the acquired knowledge)

It’s also the quintessential difference between Jewish approach to sin and repentance to all others. The mind rules the heart- and our very job is a life-long struggle to think, speak, and act in the G-dly (Torah) way. (Hence all the laws...)

We could discuss later. The irony of ironies is that to Jews, each man needs to perfect himself. To Christians, one man did this and none other is capable. I find it fascinating.

[Cronos]

It’s also the quintessential difference between Jewish approach to sin and repentance to all others. The mind rules the heart- and our very job is a life-long struggle to think, speak, and act in the G-dly (Torah) way. (Hence all the laws...)

But this is not an exclusive Jewish trait - in fact I would strongly suggest that many Hebraic groups take the opposite approach - come on, David letting his heart rule his mind and still being beloved of God?

Also, you should meet with a religious Druze - their observance to their secretive Holy books is far more than Jewish observance - as in my opinion the Druze are really Gnostics - "knowledge will save you"

But further afield - the Jainas of India are even more so in the "mind to rule the heart"

[Cronos]

The irony of ironies is that to Jews, each man needs to perfect himself. To Christians, one man did this and none other is capable. I find it fascinating.

True and this parallels with Sanatana Dharma (the main "Hindu" religion) belief that you are to perfect yourself -- you can see this in the Jain Tirthankara and the Buddhist traditions as well (They derive from the "Hindu" Adharma schools)

Though to Christians - your statement "none other is capable" is not quite the whole truth - the Christian point of view is that "no one can FULLY really perfection WITHOUT God's help." - this is in parallel to rabbinical Judaic belief that "very few have FULLY reached perfection"

[21twelve]

Wow! What an adventure!

[Cronos]

yes. I keep boring my wife when I repeat it!