Posted on 09/07/2020 12:09:29 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
We Protestants certainly have a problem when it comes to Mary–so allergic are we to any sign of Marian devotion that we flip out and run the other way at any sign of it, including thoroughly orthodox phrases like “Mother of God” and “Hail Mary, full of grace.”
The first phrase is of course part of the touchstone of orthodoxy the Definition of Chalcedon, and is the proper translation of Theotokos–the preferred Protestant version (for those who even bother to recite it) is “God-bearer,” ... To call Mary the “Mother of God” was a truth that many Christians actually gave their blood and their lives to defend, and yet we Protestants have casually tossed it aside because it sounds icky and Catholic.
Likewise, the first part of the Ave Maria is of course straight from the Gospel of Luke: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you…. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
For almost as long as the Church has existed, it has held Mary in a place of special honour, and seen fit to show that honour liturgically. No doubt Marian devotion has taken many harmful forms, but should we not defer to the consensus of many centuries of Christians that some kind of Marian devotion is appropriate and desirable? Therefore we should seek to engage, together with Catholics, Orthodox, Anglo-Catholics, and long centuries of Christian practice, in whatever forms of Marian devotion that are not necessarily heretical, idolatrous, or what have you, and try to assume the best of forms that seem dubious or ambiguous.
(Excerpt) Read more at bradlittlejohn.com ...
Facts are facts
...............................
That is a tautophrase used for evasion and followed in the same sentence by a supposition that is purely a matter of faith. NEAT, but no cigar!
So the bowing down to the statuary of Mary, the giving gifts at the statuary to the statuary, the prayers offered to and pleadings for her intercession in spiritual matters and societal matters, these you call just venerating the Catholic Mary? Yeah, you can swallow that fanatasy but I will pass on your meal. ... And I didn’t even mention the demonic appearances of the supposed Catholic Mary which are so devilishly trusted as visions from God rather than the true source.
This may be off-topic, but I’m curious about what your thoughts are regarding the story of the appearance of Mary in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 before the 3 shepherd children.
Jesus is the Son of God.
Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity. Three Persons in One God.
The angel said to Mary: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring (Lit., the holy thing begotten) shall be called the Son of God.” Luke 1:35.
The angel Gabriel told Mary: “you will conceive in your womb, and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and His kingdom will have no end.” Luke 1:32-33.
Mary was human. She was the mother of a human, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who was also the begotten Son of God. That does not make Mary the mother of God.
Elizabeth to Mary, Luke 1:43: “And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord (adonai, the sovereign, Master or Lord)should come to me?”
A demonic apparitions
Was Jesus God? Yes
Was Mary the mother of Jesus? Yes
Therefore Mary was the mother of God.
And the theology ends in this thought-terminating cliche ... and no Catholic EVER takes the time to point out that Mary is not divine, nor did Jesus get His divine nature from Him.
That was my point ...
Now if you would like to take a shot at explaining why Mary is not divine and that in no way did she contribute anything to His divine nature ... have at it ... you would be the first on FR.
Now if you would like to take a shot at explaining why Mary is not divine and that in no way did she contribute anything to His divine nature ... have at it ... you would be the first on FR.
.......................................
Easy, my friend. First, there’s no need to explain why Mary was not divine for the simple reason that nowhere has it ever been authoritatively said or written that she was, so on that basis alone we can conclude that she wasn’t! And second, there is no need to explain that red herring either and for the same reason. None of this, however, is relevant to the undisputed fact, believed by all Christians who know what they’re talking about, that Jesus was God and Mary was His mother. Now you can play with that fact however you like, but as the good Christian that you profess to be, you cannot in good faith dispute it. Now go say a few decades of your Rosary and give the matter some serious thought!
So the bowing down to the statuary of Mary,
.........................................
So this is the Gospel and theology of Christianity according to MHGinTN? Let me think about it awhile before I abandon 20 centuries of Church doctrine and embrace yours instead!
An argument from silence? Both logically and theologically unsatisfying.
Now you can play with that fact however you like, but as the good Christian that you profess to be, you cannot in good faith dispute it.
I am disputing the implications of the term ... not the definition of the term.
Why is it so hard to use the term the Bible uses ... the mother of Jesus ... why add the ambiguity? And given the RC propensity to elevate the events in John 2 pertaining to Mary ... why not go with what John calls her twice in John 2? I.e., the mother of Jesus.
With God all things are possible. “Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty? It is higher than heaven—what can you do? Deeper than Sheol—what can you know? Its measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea."
No denial. We acknowledge every day that Mary was saved by God.
Excellent! Pray on it and let the Holy Spirit guide you away from long held false teachings and embrace sola scriptura instead. Remember, God left us the Holy Spirit to lead us and not some man made denomination.
Not at all. The incarnation took place because Mary gave her assent, did it not?
Don’t bother posting to me anymore. Your Catholicism religion today is not Christianity. I’m not interested in the twists and deceits used by Catholic apologist with dead souls. I’m leaving here soon so I can only say to you do not accept the mark which will be commanded to you, even if an apparition of your Catholic Mary is involved. Just don’t take that mark planned for you.
There was a fourth ‘child’ but her experience is not usually revealed by ‘the church’ because it was so ... demonic in her mind. The Fatima appearance was not The Mother of Jesus. It was related to the history of goddess worship and there is even photographic evidence of a UFO. The eyewitness accounts recorded by the local priest tell a story very different from the deceit being promoted by the Catholic religion as an empowerment scheme.
Ah yes, typical Catholic mind ends a post with some work necessary to retain what ONLY GOD can do. Your blindness is so deep there is not any truth which could cut through to your dead soul.
2 Cor. 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Prior to 1917 there is a very long History in that region prior to Christianity of goddess worship. The image first appeared wearing a short skirt toga=type garment.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.