Troll post:
Posted on 09/07/2020 12:09:29 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
We Protestants certainly have a problem when it comes to Mary–so allergic are we to any sign of Marian devotion that we flip out and run the other way at any sign of it, including thoroughly orthodox phrases like “Mother of God” and “Hail Mary, full of grace.”
The first phrase is of course part of the touchstone of orthodoxy the Definition of Chalcedon, and is the proper translation of Theotokos–the preferred Protestant version (for those who even bother to recite it) is “God-bearer,” ... To call Mary the “Mother of God” was a truth that many Christians actually gave their blood and their lives to defend, and yet we Protestants have casually tossed it aside because it sounds icky and Catholic.
Likewise, the first part of the Ave Maria is of course straight from the Gospel of Luke: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you…. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”
For almost as long as the Church has existed, it has held Mary in a place of special honour, and seen fit to show that honour liturgically. No doubt Marian devotion has taken many harmful forms, but should we not defer to the consensus of many centuries of Christians that some kind of Marian devotion is appropriate and desirable? Therefore we should seek to engage, together with Catholics, Orthodox, Anglo-Catholics, and long centuries of Christian practice, in whatever forms of Marian devotion that are not necessarily heretical, idolatrous, or what have you, and try to assume the best of forms that seem dubious or ambiguous.
(Excerpt) Read more at bradlittlejohn.com ...
Are you ready for the Departure?
Mental conflation of the ORG of Catholicism, with the real spiritual One True Church is a very devious methodology for deceiving people. You wouldn't want to do that.
It is The One True SPIRITUAL EKKLESIA which Jesus is coming soon to snatch away and return to the Father's House for seven plus year stretch of business in Heaven. After that He will be bringing the born agains who have received new bodies and new behavior mechanisms, bringing us along to clean up the mess caused by the antichrist and the demons supporting him. We will PHYSICALLY appear with Him at touch down on the Mount of Olives.
Hope this helps. ................................... It doesn’t, because quoting Scripture and those who wrote it doesn’t answer my questions.
What?! Quoting Scripture and those who wrote it doesn’t answer my questions as to what the NT church believed? You do know that "NT" refers to New Testament" do you not?
And you failed to identify any writings of the other people you mentioned
I did? Ever hear of Acts thru Revelation? What other people did I mention?
or where exactly this New Testament church was established,
I did? Try reading the source i pointed you to. It's all there.
although I suppose that would be difficult since today those who claim to belong to that church commonly state that it has always been “invisible”!
A false dilemma. You had better belong to that invisible mystical body of Christ your own modern church states that trinitarian baptized Bible Christians are part of (which even a few Catholics are in), and which (to reiterate) is the only one true church since it alone always and and only uniquely consists 100% of true believers. And which the Spirit baptizes every believer into, (1Co. 12:13) and to which body the Lord is married and which the Lord promised would overcome the gates of Hell, while organic fellowships in which they express their faith inevitably become admixtures of wheat and tares, with Catholicism and liberal Protestantism being mostly the latter.
The degree that a visible church retains and preaches the convicting gospel of grace, of salvation by grace thru heart-purifying, justifying effectual faith, (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9) determines how many are part of the only one true church of Scripture.
Jesus is God.
Mary is His Mother
Net-net, Mary is the mother of God-Jesus.
Mother is not creator, in fact in this case, Mary is the mother of her creator.
To call her just “mother of Jesus” is that what the Muslims do and the Arians did - it demotes Jesus.
To call her Theotokos is more about Jesus who is God than about Mary
furthermore, your pre-Trib rapture isn’t in scripture, so why do you use it?
In addition neither is the word Trinity in scripture - so do you then agree with Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses about that word?
The four and twenty elders are a category identity of those whom Jesus redeemed out of every nation, kindred, tribe and tongue to be priests and kings for our God during the millennial reign of The Lord Christ!(Rev 5)
That you are too spiritually dead to see something God reveals does not mean you are correct. And how would your shortcomings mean someone else does not believe in the Trinitarian definition of The GOD? You need to seek help, from psychiatry.
Rm, note, the fifth time this month of a personal smear by mhg
Mhg, just to be clear, the Word of God, namely Jesus the Christ, did not preach the pre tribulation rapture.
So belief in that pre tribulation rapture is anti christ. Why do you hold to that non biblical 19th century philosophy?
Lord, as in Lord Jesus Christ.
Mary is mother of the Incarnation, not Deity. She gave birth to Jesus, Immanuel God With Us, not God Himself.
Mother of God says that she pre-existed God and he it then a created being, with beginning.
Why is what Scripture refers to Mary as, as *mother of Jesus*, not good enough for Catholics?
See post #146, then run along to your preterist dungeon.
The Roman way of raising the Mother of Jesus to intercessor/mediatrix/co-redemtrix has one satanic goal in mind: fashion in the Catholic Mind that The God is so dangerous to approach that one should use the Mother of Jesus to have her approach God for you. That is evil in action since Mary is not a mediatrix, not an intercessor, not a co-redemtrix and the fraudulent Catholic effort at serving up a hierarchy is a throw back to the religion of Semiramis.
Nah, there ain’t no preterist dungeon, just as there is no pre tribulation rapture
Because that’s what he believes we believe...
Svartalfar, if metmom wrote that “Jesus is the Immanuel God with us, not God Himself”, that clearly is arianism, namely the belief that jesus is a lesser, according to her statement, god.
I listened to Patrick Madrid addressing this the other day and he even hit on it a little this morning as I was driving across rural America
I think this is one of those sticking points between Protestants and Catholics that’s unresolvable honestly ...Protestants just don’t see Mary the same
Catholics ascribe qualities to Mary most Protestants won’t or don’t
I personally don’t care....I’m not Catholic and if it suits Catholics that’s ok...I’ve lay dying in a Catholic hospital and I sure didn’t complain when the nuns came in and asked if they could pray for me...I said please do
Here’s Patrick on Mary recently...i listen to Patrick to learn .about Catholics ..I’m southern Baptist....Patrick’s politics are pretty solid and his radio show is educational and well done
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It is a common misconception that Catholics worship Mary. Devotions like the Rosary, May crownings, and statues of the Blessed Mother give some who are not Catholic the impression that Catholics put Mary on the same level as God. This is not true, but it can happen that even Catholics can get confused or worried that certain devotions are heading into dangerous territory.
A listener named Frank recently called in to The Patrick Madrid Show with just such a concern. He explained that his parish was going through the book 33 Days to Morning Glory in preparation for consecrating themselves to Jesus through Mary. He told host Patrick Madrid, “I know this isn’t true or Catholic teaching, but it seems to put Mary on a God-like level, and how we’re being souls for Mary. My wife is a convert and asked me and I kind of got stumped a little bit.”
Patrick responded, “I guess my reaction is that I’ve never detected anything like putting Mary on the same level as God. I mean, that would be blasphemy. That would be completely contrary to everything that the Church teaches.”
He asked Frank to remember, “Jesus said in John chapter 17, in His high priestly prayer to the Father, ‘I have given them the glory You have given Me.’ So Jesus Himself glorifies His own mother. Not just her, but all the friends and followers of Jesus. He glorifies His own mother.”
“We know that in choosing the Blessed Virgin Mary to be the mother of God, God elevated Mary to a height so majestic and so beautiful and glorious,” Patrick explained. “There’s no honor that we could bestow on Mary that could even approach the honors that God has already given to Mary, by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus; by selecting her from all other women.”
God has already crowned Mary as the Queen of Heaven and Earth, so any honors that we give her are simply acknowledgements of what God has already done in her. In terms of Marian consecration, Patrick explained that, while there are many practices that honor Mary in it, the purpose of it is to have Mary be our mother, guide us to her Son, and trust her to help us be Christians as she is.
“It’s a way of trusting yourself to her motherly guidance,” Patrick said. “And in seeing her in her rightful place. She was the first Christian. She’s the very first person to whom the message of salvation was given by an angel. And she said yes. She accepted Jesus, not only into her heart but into her body.”
Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help
“She’s not only the first Christian, but we see that she goes immediately to tell somebody else about Jesus. She gets up and brings Jesus to Elizabeth and Zechariah and John the Baptist. So she’s a model of Christianity. I could go on but I want you to be encouraged to see this not as some sort of elevating Mary to some improper place or giving her glory that she doesn’t deserve. Nothing we do can compete with the glory that God has already given her. And when we acknowledge that, and when we see her biblical place in the plan of salvation we say, ‘I want to be like her.’”
“Mary I trust myself to you. Pray for me that I can be like you
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Protestants just don’t do all this....not sure which Popes or Bishops first went down this road...I’m sure some here know better than I ...no question.
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I have a Theotokos of Vladimir print in my formal dining room for disclosure
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