WEAPONS FOR THE SUBURBAN PREPPER

American Partisan ^ | February 7, 2019 | NC Scout

[Travis McGee]

ne of the most commonly talked about topics in the preparedness world is some form of “what weapons do you need to survive XYZ?” or “The top 5 must have weapons”. Many of these articles and videos, however, seem to follow a one size fits all approach to weapon selection. As prepared citizens, we need to make sure that we not only have tools to use, but that those tools are the ones best suited for the job. Many of us are working with small budgets for preparedness supplies, and thus I think that there are crucial aspects of weapon system selections that are often overlooked.I certainly do not consider myself a firearms expert by any means, but there are some considerations that I feel you should make when deciding what weapons systems to acquire. There are three main aspects of a firearm that you should consider when choosing your weapon.

The first issue to consider is the availability of ammunition. Take a hypothetical situation where you are trying to choose a bolt gun in either .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor.

(Much more at link)

[Chainmail]

Early in my Marine Corps career, we referred to the M-16 as "Matty Mattel" and the "Paint Chipper" and the 5.56 improved somewhat a bit later but it's still .22LR with a better press agent.

While I was working for the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab, a friend of mine commanded a provisional MP battalion in el Anbar, Iraq and he asked me to locate and send M-14s because the M-16s weren't cutting the mustard at the distances and with the kinds of structures they were dealing with over there. I found 2,500 Condition Code "A" M-14s in storage at Albany GA, then found the magazines, gauges, TMs, and the M80 Ball ammo to send them - and I was decisively stopped in this project by some pompous Major at HQMC (as all good ideas are). My buddy had to stick with the paint chippers.

The biggest roadblock to progress and combat effectiveness are staff officers hanging around the Pentagon and away from the gunfights.

[patriotman1776]

I do like to talk :)

I will start with the .308 question. I certain don’t dismiss the round at all - it would be nice to be able to out-range your opponent. My first point with it is that people often get caught up in the newest fanciest round that might do some things a tad bit better but require either handloading to keep it economical or that is otherwise uncommon in the area. I prefer the KISS theory when it comes to weapons platforms. The other area where I touch on the .308 is the AR-15 vs AR-10 debate, and in that aspect I believe that it is situationally dependent. I have an AR-10 along side my AR-15s, and they both serve a purpose. If I were doing a walking patrol as a member of a Community Defense Force, I have to balance the extra weight of the rounds and gun vs need (I can already here the “do extra PT arguments from here). If I am a fixed roadblock, gimme an AR-10 to outrange my opponent from a fixed position. Again, I don’t dismiss any round or weapon system - I advocate heavily for the mighty .22LR. My entire point was that you need to consider some of these things before making a decision, and then make your decision.

What do I envision? I think that Matt Bracken’s book trilogy “Enemies Foreign and Domestic” paint one realistic picture of what might come our way. Economics and culture war are my two big fears, and when this thing gets moving in the wrong direction, it will go downhill fast. Assuming a slow grid-up collapse, as the $$ spigots run dry, EBTs start being rejected and the economy grinds to a halt. I don’t mean a 2008 recession - I mean the BIG ONE that will involve discussions around sovereign debt levels. Riots and social unrest will be common, and systems disruptions stemming from our Just In Time delivery systems may occur.

If we are hit with any level of first strikes leading up to the inevitable war with China on critical infrastructure (i.e. electrical or SCADA systems) with cyber attacks (a la STUXNET re-engineering to bite us in the ass) or EMP, all bets are off on civility.

Sure, the authorities will step in - but not initially. And while I certainly see the dangers of China, they have no ability to truly project power yet (though they are slated to supposedly build some nuclear powered carriers by 2035 I believe). They are focused on regional power project within the innermost chain of the islands in the South China Sea (i.e. Spratly Islands). If they ever came here, they would wait some time for the chaos to truly seize and destroy us internally as a country before offering “emergency funding or supplies”.

I did do a previous post on this topic based off of what I read in another article. Given your assertion that any such breakdown of governmental systems would warrant intervention by powerful state actors, you may disagree with my thoughts there as well, and I doubt either would be able to convince the other. I will just say that I think you are overestimating the ability of the “powerful state actors” to maintain the level of control I believe you are suggesting they will.

https://www.americanpartisan.org/2019/01/the-fourth-turning-the-future-as-i-see-it-by-patriotman/

As my tagline states, I am not an expert by any means. My contributions at American Partisan are from the perspective of a not-so-experienced J.Q Public citizen and meant to generate discussion, debate, and hopefully give people stuff to think about as they make their own decisions on some of these choices.

God Bless.

[Celtic Conservative]

Some online retailers have “machetes” for sale. In reality, they are modern katanas, parkerized and with rubber grips. As long as they are made of decent steel i see these going into the lineup just after negans bat.

CC

[The Duke]

My searches are showing a lower muzzle velocity for the Mosin-Nagant than the .308, which is lower than the .30-06, which is still significantly lower than the 300 WINMAG.

Surely muzzle velocity = range? Some of he drops I’m seeing for some of these rifles at 1000 yards are crazy too.

[papertyger]

Never knew about this forum until someone passed this post along so I figured I would create an account just to clear his name so he didn’t get blamed for such a terrible article :)

Welcome to FreeRepublic, FRiend.

And for the record, your article is endorsed by Travis McGee. With that, no one else’s two cents matters.

[Chainmail]

Lots of words, as always, but very cogent. We do have points of divergence, but your viewpoint is fun to read.

The disagreement: China is improving their power projection faster than you seem to be aware: they have four carriers in operation or very soon to be in operation, including two large deck carriers. While they would be under water almost instantaneously if they dared go after us while our nation command authority is in action, they would be dangerous if we had a societal meltdown. China, you may be aware, currently controls the Panama Canal, thanks to the generosity of Jimma Carter.

So a full-on Civil War is dangerous to us because the major threat powers - and the UN - would be quick to intervene in their own special ways if the US Government evaporates.

The only other credible scenario that I can think of is a partial melt where gangs run raids into good neighborhoods to steal and play with the inhabitants. While we have the Second Amendment, most of even the gangs with members with the IQs of tap water would understand that they would face a fusillade before they reached the first speed bump on our streets.

I am happy that you enjoy your ARs - but I am a Vietnam combat vet and I have a lot of bad experience with the M16 platform because aluminum batters easily, the chamber is inaccessible from the outside, and mud and sand can still jam that puppy up. Trust me.

M14/M1As are long and heavy but go off every time you pull the trigger - and kill reliably - no matter what. Not only that, if you wish to restrain rather than obliterate, that wood stock is quite effective. As I said earlier, 7.62 NATO punches through almost anything with lots of energy to spare.

I have a buddy who also served in Vietnam but in the army. He debated me once about the M16/M14 in Vietnam and told me "the M14 was too heavy for Vietnam". I told him that I wished that he told me while he was there so "I could have sent him a big, strong Marine to hold the rifle up for him". He hasn't spoken much to me since then...

[papertyger]

For your consideration:

https://seeallopensight.com

No batteries. No parallax. Great price.

[patriotman1776]

Thank you for the kind words and warm welcome. This place will definitely become a frequent stop of mine. I hope everyone here has a wonderful day!

[patriotman1776]

And you as well sir. I would have quoted specific lines in my comment below but I cannot figure out how to do so.

Hah! I bet your friend was a little peeved after that :D I have read about the issues of the M16 in Vietnam and can imagine your hesitancy with the platform. Using that frame of reference I would probably agree with you. I personally plan to run a few setups - AR15, AR10, and AK47. For the latter, if our advesaries do step foot on the US, there will be plenty of spare parts and mags to be had :)

I am tangentially aware of China’s current capabilities but I don’t know if 1) that is enough of what they need to project power egfectively enough, and 2) if at this point they have any desire to do so. Recently a Chinese Admiral said that the best way to defeat the US was to sink two carriers in the South China Sea and they have the anti-ship missiles and hypersonic weapon systems to do so. They said that given that loss of men, the US public will turn against conflict. I think their view is that there is no need to do by force what we are doing through bad economic decisions and emerging cultural faultlines. Thus, I don’t think they risk open conflict.

So we definitely agree about their danger during a societal breakdown but I thing we just differ on the details. I find it had to imagine that they have the ability to maintain those supply lines for that distance, and even with a societal breakdown I think it is too dangerous for them. They are certainly targeting the continental US for propaganda though - American Partisan reported on them buying a radio station right across the Southern Border in Mexico for what can only be assumed as a “Voice of China” style broadcast center. And the Panama Canal piece is why I hate Carter. Now if we get hit with an EMP/cyber attack first, they only have to wait a year for most to die off and then they can sweep right in.

As for your other scenario, I question whether they would realize the danger or if bravado and ego step in and they think they are the baddest mfers in the area. Having a Community Defense Force would help deter them, but I think in a partial breakdown of civil society this may be the more common threat. I don’t believe we will see a full on Civil War but rather a Low Intensity Conflict and Insurgency between radical communist ANTIFA types and the right wing groups. If the $$ and supplies stop flowing though, systems disruptions will take the tinderbox that society currently is and ignite it.

Then again, who the heck knows what is going to happen. For me, I intend on plodding along with food stores and other supplies as I fervently hope none of it comes to fruition. I pray what I fear is coming does NOT come to pass, but I will be as ready as I can be if it does.

Appreciate the chat. I am always open to new viewpoints as it feeds into the brain and helps me either soldify or tweak my positions.

[Chainmail]

I have enjoyed our discussions as well - an earlier poster insisted that I was uninformed about weapons.. but it would be hard to find anyone who has been more deeply involved with weapon engineering than I have been! 27 years in the Marines and 13 years working a Senior Engineer of the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab, with lots of time at Picatinny and Rock Island Arsenals, Aberdeen and Yuma Proving Ground.

Yes, my experience when the M16 was introduced "in country" has colored my lifelong opinion of that system - nothing like seeing your own young fellow Marines dead next to a broken-down weapon to shape your opinion. I have never forgiven the jerks who raced to get that thing fielded before full operational testing was completed. The AR platform is accurate enough and reliable enough, now - just make sure that you keep it clean!

My point about China and other potential exploiters of an American political meltdown is that if our defense forces lose cohesion, we will be very vulnerable. You don't need an amphibious attack force if the ports are wide open. It's also hard to field a Carrier Battle Group if there are fights in the streets and the infrastructure is crippled. We are an awesome power as long as we have good leadership in place and the ability to effectively employ our armed forces.

Semper Fi,

Chainmail

[papertyger]

I don’t believe we will see a full on Civil War but rather a Low Intensity Conflict and Insurgency between radical communist ANTIFA types and the right wing groups.

I’m inclined to agree with your assessment in a three axis conflict; the poles being left, right, and government keeping a lid on the more destructive activities of the other two.

I don’t believe any of the players want to risk a Kosovo writ large. The right has too much invested, government requires something to govern, and the left is only interested in “conflict” so long as they are largely protected from consequences for their actions.

Nevertheless, there WILL be conflict if for no other reason than the left’s proclivity for punishing dissent to their self-congratulation.

[Kommodor]

Hey, thanks for the reply, I’ll look into it. (Need something for my new toy, ya know)

[archy]

Early in my Marine Corps career, we referred to the M-16 as "Matty Mattel" and the "Paint Chipper" and the 5.56 improved somewhat a bit later but it's still .22LR with a better press agent.

A pal of mine who worked with Vietnamese Rangers liked them, though he and his compadres carried American M1/M2 carbines. And the reason they liked them was probably not quite what the designers and Army Ordnance had in mind.

There's just about enough room inside that plastic M16 [not on the current M4, but you can be creative] for about a half pound of C4, an electric blasting cap, and a mercury tilt switch. Hey, look, this rifle's just lying here next to this dead guy, and he doesn't need it any more, so I might as well....*

[Chainmail]

Very innovative use for the "Plastic Fantastic" but I'm not sure that the plastic and aluminum frags wouldn't done more than annoy the VC.

Damn M16 probably qualified for the Ho Chi Minh Medal for causing so many enemy combatants missed..