Posted on 09/12/2017 10:41:43 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Bluestockings bookstore quickly filled to capacity last night for Mark Bray, a former Occupy Wall Street organizer turned Dartmouth history lecturer who is making waves with the publication of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook.
Soon after its release last month, the president of Dartmouth rebuked him in a strongly worded statement after Bray, appearing on “Meet the Press,” expressed support for the sometimes violent tactics of Antifa, that mysterious network of masked anarchists, socialists, communists and varied others who have clashed with white supremacists and neo-Nazis, tragically in Charlottesville.
About 100 of Dartmouth’s faculty then attacked the president for criticizing their 34-year-old colleague and demanded a retraction. If the once obscure academic was feeling the heat, Bray didn’t show it as he amiably addressed a friendly crowd at Bluestockings, first reading an excerpt from his book. It traces the rise of mostly leftwing groups or cells that have long battled fascism, abroad and in the U.S., some well before the rise of Hitler and Mussolini.
During a question and answer period, Bray made it plain that he has no problem with militants on the far left defending themselves with weapons against activists on the far right. “I’m not trying to tell people in politics what to do,” he said. “But I don’t think it’s ludicrous that if white supremacists will be carrying guns then anti-fascists might carry guns too. I’ll leave it at that.”
Bray also quoted Cornell West, one of the counterprotestors at Charlottesville, saying that Antifa “saved his life” from mob of alt-right protestors attending the rally.
B+B asked Bray to respond to the notion that Antifa is a criminal gang–one whose activities have reportedly been classified as “domestic terrorist violence” by the Department of Homeland Security.
“That doesn’t make any sense,” he replied. “Antifa isn’t one group. It’s many groups. In essence, it’s a social revolution against the far right that focuses on direct action. ‘Terrorist organization’ is not a useful term. It’s ridiculous and typical of how the government responds to radical politics.”
Bray couldn’t estimate how many members Antifa has in the U.S. “They don’t give out membership lists, so it’s impossible to say.”
Based on the dozens of anti-fascists Bray has interviewed, he believes most of them use violence as a last resort. “Most anti-fascists would rather do other kinds of work. They’d rather be organizing to save the environment or organizing to destroy capitalism. They might infiltrate a group online or talk to a venue owner and organize a boycott. That would be great.
“But when it comes to hundreds of neo-Nazis marching down the street, then you have to make some changes. Ultimately, it’s by any means necessary,” he said, quoting a much used phrase by the Black Panthers of yore. He added: “It’s often not necessary.”
So far as we could tell, there was one recognizable member of antifa who had come to hear Bray at Bluestockings. That would be a 21-year-old from Wisconsin who donned a face mask at one point in the discussion and later identified himself only as Drew. He said he turned to the movement after working first for Bernie Sanders and then Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Drew noted he was “shocked” when Clinton lost to Donald Trump. He then joined up with an unidentified group to protect “Somalians in the rural areas.” He also noted: “I identify as a feminist.”
Someone please show ANTIFA the definition of fascist because they apparently don’t know what it means.
^Yeah, I’m just slightly husky not fat.
This guy is not qualified to teach history if he thinks that nazi and KKK are anything other than leftist groups. Is he not aware that Antifa has its roots in 1930s Germany, as a rival to the nazi thugs?
For the last hundred or so years, only two groups are responsible for the bulk of terrorism. Islam and the radical left. The left kind of held back after 9/11, but it looks like they are rearing their heads again.
I prefer extermination them but I know we will not exterminate terrorist especially domestic ones
By this professor’s definition, there are no terrorists.
Radical Islam consists of a variety of organizations, as well as lone wolves, spontaneously arising, sometimes rivals of each other and sometimes cooperating, with memberships that are difficult to determine. So, that makes them a social movement.
The extreme right, too, includes many different groups, Nazis, KKK, skinheads, Aryan Nations, as well as lone wolves. Aren’t they, also, just another social movement?
What makes identifies terrorist organizations is not the integrity of their membership lists, but their willingness to use violence to pursue political ends. By this definition there is, out there, not one or two, but many sources of terrorism.
Furthermore, these terrorist organizations aren’t really opposites, but are rivals. The opposite of a terrorist is somebody who is, outside of compelling circumstances, unwilling to use violence to pursue political ends. Even when that line has to be crossed, as in a revolutionary war, non-terrorists such as George Washington adhere to the laws of war.
As to whether antifa is merely smart enough to know you don’t bring a knife to a gun fight, a small “d” democrat would say law enforcement should protect those who exercise their rights to assemble and so forth, as well as the public at large. As far as antifa and its friends in the capital “d” Democratic party are concerned, the police are part of the problem. Democrats like the Governor of Virginia order the cops to go to the donut shop and allow nature to take its course with regard to antifa.
Antifa is geared to confront and resist law enforcement. That is why they hide behind masks, even gas masks, have shields and clubs, and throw bottles of urine, rocks and firecrackers at law enforcement.
Furthermore, it is not “defensive” to deface and vandalize statues and blow up police stations and other targets. The purpose is to display the will to power and, therefore, to terrorize the public at large.
For a scholar to deny these obvious facts means he is either so sold out to antifa that he has lost all judgment, or is an operative of antifa, deliberately trying to fool the public. If you’re willing to use violence to achieve political ends, what’s the big deal about using deception?
Commies have always hated America
Antifa is a bunch of WHITE Pajama Boy pussies who think communism,socialism and anarchy rolled up into one is so cool. They claim to go after Fascists by being Fascist and the irony is lost on them.Charlotte was nothing more than their Fascist version of the Reichstag Fire. This POS professor who condones their behavior is a disgrace.Antifa should not keep sticking the stick at the hornets nest. I recommend they do not listen to this Dartmouth blowhard concerning arming themselves. They will be met with overwhelming response.
“Social Revolution” could mean that a bunch of ignorant assholes are trying to take over.
I prefer “valid targets” as their designation.
The extreme right, too, includes many different groups, Nazis, KKK, skinheads, Aryan Nations, as well as lone wolves. Aren’t they, also, just another social movement?
You or the someone writing this statement has the same uneducated view of left and right that the Antifa idiots have.
Name the violent group, they are all on the left. There is no such thing as extreme right except in the warped minds of those on the left.
“Perverts and drug addicts” is even more accurate!
I would prefer that they just disappear in a puff of smoke.
Reviews of Mark Bray’s book on Amazon. El Sucko.
Antifa is simply the National Liberation Front from the 60’s, recycled. They THINK they have new ideas, but this has all been done before. During the turbulent 60’s-70’s, the NLF would go from campus to campus inciting violence. Bill Ayers and the others SDS-ers still living, must be so proud.
5/20/17 - a newly commissioned 2nd Lt., through ROTC, a young black man, is stabbed to death in College Park, Maryland
5/11/17 - a death threat is left on voice mail for a Minnesota Congressman who is a Muslim
3/22/17 - a homeless black man is stabbed to death in New York City
2/2/17 - an Indian American is killed and two others are wounded in Austin, Missouri
Terrorism, hate-based and political violence is a complex and changing thing. In some years, there are more incidents from this group and less from that. If your point is that there hasn’t been as much violence emanating from the extreme right-wing as from the extreme left-wing or from radical Islam, we agree with other. There has indeed been an explosion of extreme left-wing violence in the past two years.
But, if you prefer to live a make-believe world in which terrorism, hate-based and political violence is all due to extremists on the left, what I’ll say is this: it’s o.k. for you to live in a fantasy world as long as you don’t violate the rights of others (however, I would want you to head up the Department of Homeland Security). Even calling people “uneducated,” that’s not so bad. We can live in a world where people are sometimes rude.
And in other statements, he also wants bank robbers to be called “undocumented bank customers,” child molesters called “pre-puberty sexual educators,” and drug dealers to be called “undocumented pharmacists.”
Mark
Speaking of extreme, you seem to have extreme difficulty explaining who the make-believe right wing extremists are. No group you have yet mentioned has it’s roots anywhere near the so called right wing. I would further ask, who are the right wing, right wing of what, and what do you think this extreme right wing believes in? Nazi’s, communists, socialists, skin heads, revolutionaries, racists, knuckleheads, terrorists, democrats, Antifa, and fascists, are all left wingers and points out the extreme irony of the Antifa movement.
In one post you say I’m uneducated and in another you ask to explain what may be no more than a convention.
Before I do so, let’s just recognize that I am not uneducated. I know exactly what I’m talking about.
I can be persuaded that the political spectrum isn’t well described for all purposes, as linear. There are, for example, multiple dimensions such as economic issues and social issues.
Fascism and Nazism, during the 1930s, were viewed back then as left, and now they as viewed as right. Yet, how could they be right-wing if free-markets are right-wing? Ditto the KKK. They used to be the terrorist wing of the Democratic Party, how are they now extreme right-wing?
In the case of the Falangists (Hispanic fascists) we have a more or less continuous lineage. So, we can see the evolution. Back in the 1930s, falangism was anti-capitalist as well as anti-communist. It was a third way. But, nowadays, fascism is considered on the right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falangism
The converse is the case with the Vestre (literally, “Left”) parties of Scandinavia. At the time they were formed, they were opposed to the nobility and the established church, and promoted democracy and individual rights. That was a long time ago. Today, Vestre is considered center-right because they favor individual rights and market-oriented economies.
So, here is how I make sense of all this:
What we call right and left are slowly-changing coalitions of what the founders of this country called “factions” in Federalist #10. In the U.S., this currently has conservative Christians and some other people of faith along with free-market economics, those believing in law and order and a strong national defense, and those believing that nations - and this nation in particular - serve a useful purpose.
The other side has people inclined toward socialism, secular beliefs, permissiveness, and global governance. Strangely, Muslims are on the left, being as they are strongly religious, because the Christians are on the right. This is a bad fit. There are other bad fits, on both sides.
So the political spectrum is useful enough for almost all voters as we move from one election to another, but it imbeds internal contradictions and over time it is subject to change.
As to why evil people are considered to be on one side or the other, is a legitimate question. The Aryan Nation is a prison gang, arising to enable whites to survive in environments where blacks and hispanics have their own prison gangs. These people aren’t even eligible to vote (except in Virginia, where Terry McAulliffe says being a felon has nothing to do with voting).
Here is a nice theory that “explains” why these violent people are considered part of the political spectrum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
A+ for reasoned response. I don’t exactly agree with the horseshoe theory, I like the linear theory that isn’t associated with a right and left philosophy, but is related more to the type of Government most beneficial to free men. Unfortunately I am out of town on business, and am short of time for about a week.
Thanks. While these devices are useful for certain purposes, they all have their limitations.
What is clearly wrong about the Southern Poverty Law Center is that they call white racists “extreme right-wing,” but don’t call black racists “extreme left-wing.” They get excited about FBI entrapment of survivalists with a few screws loose, and criticize FBI entrapment of Muslims with a few screws loose. So, they filter out a lot of violence that should be recognized as left-wing, given their definition of right-wing.
Also, Antifa MUST be identified as a terrorist organization. Like the Weathermen Underground of two generations ago, and the Earth Liberation Front of a generation ago, there’s both organized and spontaneous elements to the group. The professor who described Antifa as a social movement reveals how little he actually knows about terrorism and about social movements.
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