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Watch: Trump Says 'Yes' To Medical Marijuana, 'No' To Deporting Justin Bieber
Civilized ^ | 11/24/2015 | Julia Wright

Posted on 02/10/2016 5:29:44 PM PST by JediJones

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To: AuH2ORepublican
neither cures any disease, so neither is a medicine.

Hydrocodone and insulin cure no diseases - are they not medicine?

41 posted on 02/11/2016 11:12:09 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: ConservingFreedom

“If you want to argue that marijuana is no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco and should be legal, go ahead (although I’d argue to the contrary)”

“What are your arguments to the contrary?”


Even minor use of marijuana makes people more likely to yield to temptations and cravings instead of following the Ten Commandments; it takes a heck of a lot of alcohol to get a person to such state (and people can smoke as much tobacco as they please and it won’t affect their minds). Marijuana is a mind-altering drug, and we as a society have an interest in people having inhibitions and proper respect for morality. You may disagree with my values judgment, and you have every right to do so, but I still have a right to differentiate between a marijuana joint and a mug of beer. And if you notice that my argument could be extended to stand for the proposition that drinking alcohol until inebriation is as worthy of proscription as smoking a joint, then you’d be correct.

“I suspect you’re right that a marijuana dependency is less intense than for other drugs and thus less likely to lead to user crime. But the incentives and resources for dealers to commit crimes are exactly the same.”


If so, marijuana-legalization proponents should limit their argument to deaths caused by people committing crimes in order to get marijuana, and of murders committed by marijuana dealers. What is illogical is to argue that (i) marijuana is a “harmless” drug that makes people loose and relaxed and no threat to anyone but simultaneously (ii) drug addicts are dangerous people forced to kill to afford illegal drugs. Choose one or the other, but not both.

One would think that the drug-legalization crowd would have matured enough that their arguments today weren’t the same as in the liner notes to a Cypress Hill album from 30 years ago. (I take that back, the argument has improved somewhat; legalization proponents no longer talk quite so much about how hemp is a really strong fabric that may be used for clothing and stuff ... so of course it should be good for smoking.)


42 posted on 02/11/2016 11:32:15 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll defend your rights?)
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To: ConservingFreedom

“Hydrocodone and insulin cure no diseases - are they not medicine?”


Do hydrocodone and insulin not keep people from dying from excessive coughing and diabetes, respectively?

At best, marijuana is like a “natural” aspirin (like ginger pills or something). And there must be many other chemicals and/or plants that persons could imbibe for pain relief while suffering from nausea, although none of them has a few million recreational users lobbying for their legalization.


43 posted on 02/11/2016 11:39:57 AM PST by AuH2ORepublican (If a politician won't protect innocent babies, what makes you think that he'll defend your rights?)
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To: JediJones
Any Conservative who would deny the right of a State to legalize the medical use of drugs is seriously confused. The Federal Government was not given power over health, safety & morals; those fall under the "Police Power," which was never delegated to the Federal Government.

The hypocrisy of certain Republicans, who claim to be Conservative, strict constructionists, but would seek to over-turn local laws on local subjects, is one of the things which seriously undermines our ability to appeal to youthful idealists. "Hypocrisy" is the first line of attack by Leftist Professors on College campuses, who systematically strive to undermine the Conservative principles of students who come from traditionally minded families.

44 posted on 02/11/2016 11:42:50 AM PST by Ohioan
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To: digger48

It just might!


45 posted on 02/11/2016 11:56:59 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: JediJones

I loathe articles that start with a few sentences then have a big BUT....

This one does. And something from 1990. 26 years ago Trump said blah blah blah. Whatever.


46 posted on 02/11/2016 12:05:41 PM PST by ironman
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Do hydrocodone and insulin not keep people from dying from excessive coughing and diabetes, respectively?

Marijuana keeps people from dying from AIDS wasting.

there must be many other chemicals and/or plants that persons could imbibe for pain relief while suffering from nausea

Probably - so what? Should there be an upper limit to the number of medications available for a given condition?

47 posted on 02/11/2016 1:35:46 PM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Even minor use of marijuana makes people more likely to yield to temptations and cravings instead of following the Ten Commandments; it takes a heck of a lot of alcohol to get a person to such state

Evidence? My personal (past) experience with both substances is that for each one, low degree of intoxication meant low likelihood of yielding to temptations and cravings.

What is illogical is to argue that (i) marijuana is a "harmless" drug that makes people loose and relaxed and no threat to anyone but simultaneously (ii) drug addicts are dangerous people forced to kill to afford illegal drugs.

No contradiction - (i) relates to effects intrinsic to the drug, whereas (ii) relates to an incentive structure that is heavily affected by factors such as legal status that are not intrinsic to the drug.

(I note in passing that I have never claimed that marijuana - or alcohol, or a bacon double cheeseburger - is "harmless" and very rarely have I seen anyone else claim it; and that I've never claimed nor seen anyone ever claim that drug addicts are "forced" to commit crimes. Watch those straw men.)

48 posted on 02/11/2016 1:47:22 PM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: Ohioan
Any Conservative who would deny the right of a State to legalize the medical or recreational use of drugs is seriously confused.

Completed it.

49 posted on 02/11/2016 1:48:51 PM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: Ohioan

We have enough problems with drugs coming over the Mexican border. You think that when a state allows their production that they won’t make it over the border into other states?

If that doesn’t happen even one time, then it would be a state issue and states’ rights would apply. But once one drug makes it over the border, it becomes an issue for the federal government.


50 posted on 02/11/2016 3:34:41 PM PST by JediJones (Ideology is NOT optional.)
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To: AuH2ORepublican; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; NFHale; sickoflibs
One would think that the drug-legalization crowd would have matured enough that their arguments today weren't the same as in the liner notes to a Cypress Hill album from 30 years ago.

Bwahahahahahahahahaah!

I take that back, the argument has improved somewhat; legalization proponents no longer talk quite so much about how hemp is a really strong fabric that may be used for clothing and stuff

Yeah, they seem to have outgrown that argument, which was always just a pretense, as is it's "medicinal value", which is the new pretense. I'd prefer an honest "we just want to high out of our minds".

51 posted on 02/11/2016 8:25:47 PM PST by Impy (They pull a knife, you pull a gun. That's the CHICAGO WAY, and that's how you beat the rats!)
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To: JediJones
If that doesn’t happen even one time, then it would be a state issue and states’ rights would apply. But once one drug makes it over the border, it becomes an issue for the federal government.

So you support the New Deal Commerce Clause. Right?

52 posted on 02/11/2016 11:11:33 PM PST by Ken H
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To: JediJones
But once one drug makes it over the border, it becomes an issue for the federal government.

Once one drug makes it over the border, the specific items that have crossed a state border become an issue for the federal government. Similar items that have remained within a single state's borders remain none of the feds' business.

53 posted on 02/12/2016 7:13:52 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: Impy; AuH2ORepublican; BillyBoy; fieldmarshaldj; NFHale; sickoflibs
it's "medicinal value", which is the new pretense.

No pretense - the National Academy of Sciennces' Institute of Medicine reports: "there are patients with debilitating symptoms for whom smoked marijuana might provide relief. [...] Until a nonsmoked rapid-onset cannabinoid drug delivery system becomes available, we acknowledge that there is no clear alternative for people suffering from chronic conditions that might be relieved by smoking marijuana, such as pain or AIDS wasting." - Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base (1999)

I'd prefer an honest "we just want to high out of our minds".

Legally competent adults who want to get a little or a lot drunk or high must in a free society enjoy the liberty to do so.

54 posted on 02/12/2016 7:17:14 AM PST by ConservingFreedom (Trump fans:'he's no more conservative than Mitt'-www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3389209/posts)
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To: altura

55 posted on 02/12/2016 7:21:56 AM PST by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: JediJones
You make an argument for a Federal Law, criminalizing the taking of what is contraband in a particular State, into that State. You make no point even remotely reasonable for the Federal Government to deny the people of any State, the right to legalize the practice of medicine and the right to prescribe in that State.

Your delineation of possible problems does not extend the functional role of the Federal Agency. It is the difference between a functional role and outright usurpation.

56 posted on 02/12/2016 9:06:59 AM PST by Ohioan
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