Posted on 02/03/2016 10:16:01 AM PST by Jack Black
Many years ago I was a passenger in a car driven by my brother. He cut off a car leaving a gas station, the car followed us about 1/2 a mile to our destination. The occupant got out, ran up ripped open the drivers door and pulled my brother (a smallish 16 year old at the time) out of the car bodily. Turned out the fellow driving was a LEO (Harbor Master) in an unmarked car. He was also not in uniform. Shortly there after a marked police car showed up, with uniformed police officers.
The police wrote my brother a ticket for failure to yield to a police officer or some such. The ticket was thrown out by the DA when my brothers lawyer pointed out that in Michigan one is only required to stop for either an officer in a marked vehicle, or an officer in an unmarked vehicle in uniform. Mere flashing lights and guy in blue jeans is not sufficient (or was not at the time) to indicate to a driver that they were required to stop.
Now, look again at the video of the police ambush in Burns. In both the first stop, and the subsequent roadblock ambush. In the first stop the two vehicles pulling him over appear to be completely black with no markings. They have no lightbar, only a couple flashing lights behind the grill. We don't clearly see the people in the vehicles. Were they in recognizable uniforms of the local police or State Patrol? Or were they dressed all in "ninja black" perhaps with POLICE stenciled on the backs of their uniforms?
In the second stop you have three trucks blocking the road, none appear in the least bit to be law enforcement vehicles.
You know you are supposed to stop for vehicles marked like THIS:
And obey the lawful commands of people dressed like THIS:
First, lets look at the vehicles used in the initial stop: 
They have no visible police markings, do not have lightbars, and do not look like and typical unmarked police vehicles (such as the ubiquitous plain white Ford Crown Victoria). The only indicator of them having an official function are the one red and one blue flashing lights hidden in the grill.
Now lets go to the roadblock used to facilitate the ambush. there are No visible police logos in this picture, at the second stop:
I do not see any flat brimmed police hats.
Also, not the absence of road flares, safety signs, warning cones or any other device warning motorists to slow down. Any tow truck driver in the state would do a better job of marking a road closure than these guys did.
In summary it is not at all clear to me from looking at these pictures that the drivers of the target vehicles had an obligation to stop at either juncture.
Should LaVon's family choose to bring suit for his death I think they will have a good case based on the flagrant failure of the supposed law enforcement officers to properly identify themselves.
According to the survivors there were no commands given via PA at the first stop either.
If I were stopped on a rural highway in the middle of nowhere by two black SUV's with no markings, non-uniformed drivers, and given no identification or verbal commands I would probably drive away too.
The behavior of the US law enforcement in this respect is reminiscent of something you would see in a Latin American country, where police act as free-lance strong arm units, operate shadowy death squads, and use poorly marked roadblocks for nefarious purposes.
This is not in the tradition of American law enforcement.
This was not a pursuit following a crime (such as a bank robbery or something) where in emergency un-marked or civilian vehicles might be pressed into service. This was a highly planned operation that included air-support. Given that one can only assume that the choice of using all unmarked vehicles and non-uniformed officers was intentional.
Why? My surmise is that they hoped to engender exactly the response they got, to escalate what should have been a simple traffic stop into a "felon fleeing arrest". It certainly has many indicators of a pre-planned setup with malicious intent on the part of the agencies directing it.
Who Are the THUGS in the Streets of Burns
(video of "supporters of the sheriff" with no uniforms refusing to identify themselves)
Where have you been lately? If that is the standard then it went out the door years ago. Police shootings of unarmed or marginally armed individuals have become almost commonplace. And not only are most of the shootings found to be justified, the law enforcement officers are strongly supported on FR.
Thanks for posting this link.
That Finicum was trying to crash through a questionably legal roadblock is not proven likely.
That he was reaching for a holstered weapon has not been proven likely either. There is a report, not proven to the public either as far as I know, that Finicum left his weapons behind and in the care of a friend prior to his last ride.
The efforts to spin his actions any other way is not how I would describe what is going on. Getting to the truth of the matter is closer to what is going on in the hearts and minds of the concerned.
It’s not like political administration after political administration in recent decades have not shown they are no longer respectful of the Constitution or the Americans who are. The idea that Finicum’s death was payback for armed citizens successfully short circuiting an increasingly dangerous situation at the Bundy Ranch has to be dealt with before it can be denied.
The link you provided is not functioning. The information you gleaned from that link may be questionable. I can’t confirm this but iirc Finicum was reported to be in his seventies.
One day shy of his 55th birthday.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/lavoy-finicum-obituary?pid=1000000177548249
So it was a setup. So it was murder. WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE ABOUT IT?
The next time it might be you or I.
If you haven’t done so or need a refresher, read Travis McGee’s Trilogy and “What I Saw At The Coup”.
Interesting. Thanks for the ping.
That story had a happy ending, with the traitors all captured and being hung. The story in progress is not nearly so happy, the coup is working, the traitors are getting away with it, and the virtuous truth tellers are being hounded and destroyed.
Those stories all got worse before things got better. My point is that there were people who took action and made things right.
Ping
~~~~~~~~~~~
If I were stopped on a rural highway in the middle of nowhere by two black SUV's with no markings, non-uniformed drivers, and given no identification or verbal commands I would probably drive away too.
The behavior of the US law enforcement in this respect is reminiscent of something you would see in a Latin American country, where police act as free-lance strong arm units, operate shadowy death squads, and use poorly marked roadblocks for nefarious purposes.
This is not in the tradition of American law enforcement.
This was not a pursuit following a crime (such as a bank robbery or something) where in emergency un-marked or civilian vehicles might be pressed into service. This was a highly planned operation that included air-support.
Given that one can only assume that the choice of using all unmarked vehicles and non-uniformed officers was intentional.
Why? My surmise is that they hoped to engender exactly the response they got, to escalate what should have been a simple traffic stop into a "felon fleeing arrest". It certainly has many indicators of a pre-planned setup with malicious intent on the part of the agencies directing it.
“...If I were stopped on a rural highway in the middle of nowhere by two black SUV’s with no markings, non-uniformed drivers, and given no identification or verbal commands I would probably drive away too. ...”
Add to the above scenario —being shot at—
Both women witnesses said that someone fired on the truck at the first stop.
WOuld you have fled, Gunslingr - or would you have stayed to palaver?
Freeper Ray76 has conducted an analysis from the video that Finicum came around the blind curve doing in the mid-60s.
It's evident he had NO time to do other than what he did, without steaming straight into the trucks parked there.
I like Jack Black's analysis about the "unmarked vehicles" everywhere. I didn't notice that little fact before, but now it stands out like a sore thumb.
If you would like more information about what's happening in Oregon, please FReepmail me.
I lost my Oregon list when my computer crashed last year, so please send me your name by FReepmail if you want to be on this list.
One of the things I'm puzzling over is that figure who runs toward the truck in an effort to get away from it. I'm not using any high speed video equipment but that figure just seems to appear out of nowhere at the 5:49 mark of the edited version linked above.
I'm wondering, Ray, during your analysis did you notice that figure breaking away from others who might be standing next to or behind the dark pickup truck or does it actually appear as it does to me?
If you think that's oddball tinfoil, consider this.
Recalling the Clinton Foundation involvement in facilitating the sale of uranium laden land could it be all those out of uniform shooters are foreign nationals protecting their property rights the only way they know how?
[exerpt] "In this audio interview Stewart Rhodes interviews Greg McWhirter, an Oath Keeper SWAT officer, about the road block and tactics used on LaVoy Finicum ... Greg gives us his expert insight into why most police departments across the country no longer use road blocks, as was used in Oregon this last week that ended with such needless bloodshed. Greg has requested a copy of the Oregon State Police's policies, and we are waiting to review them, but the danger of roadblocks is reflected in the Portland Police department's policy, which forbids the use of a roadblock (aka, "barricade") in the manner in which we saw used last week:
630.05 Vehicle Pursuits:
d. Barricading: Barricading is considered deadly physical force and subject to DIR 1010.10.
1. Barricading requires the approval of a supervisor. Furthermore, the barricade must be set up in such a manner as to afford the fleeing suspect ample time to see the barricade and stop his/her vehicle."
The interview is long and the audio is not great, so here is a rundown of the topics covered:
I have not posted any analysis of events at the roadblock.
Analysis: http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3391034/posts?page=93#93
> note the absence of road flares, safety signs, warning cones or any other device warning motorists to slow down.
At time index 25:55 in the FBI video you can see a police vehicle in the southbound lane north of the roadblock. There are also police vehicles south of the roadblock. The AO was clear.
(reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ )
To me that bad things start happening when he decides to go off the side of the road. It is interpreted by the LEOs as hostile, and sets up the deadly shooting that follows.
Had he had ample visibility to the roadblock and slowed down, then stopped in the road, I think this might (maybe, I wish) been avoided.
I don’t see how he could have known there was a roadblock ahead until such time as it came into view. Was there time to stop? I don’t know.
He may have wanted to evade the roadblock but I do not think he intended to deliberately hit anyone. Was there time to stop? I don’t know. There was probably a “wtf” moment followed by indecision. Seconds count. Maybe after 1-2 seconds there was insufficient stopping distance. I don’t know. I suspect there probably was adequate distance but I don’t know.
Victoria Sharp and Ryan Payne where in the truck driven by Finicum.
Prior to release of the FBI video Sharp stated that Payne had his hands and head out the window and was asking to let the woman out, and he was shot at.
Flashes are clearly seen on the video of the stop. Immediately after those flashes Finicum leaves. Whether those flashes are muzzle flashes, flash bangs, or something else I do not know. Sharp said that after being shot at they realized that the police “meant business” and that Finicum yelled that he was going to continue driving so that he could “talk to the sheriff.”
So we know that the persons in the truck believed they were being shot at and believed they were likely going to be killed, so they fled.
They never should have left, yet I understand why they did.
When they left they were fired on again (according to Sharp). Why? What purpose does that serve? The police know there is a roadblock ahead, Finicum doesn’t. They know there is nowhere for Finicum to go except to the roadblock, yet they shot at them as they left.
The police know that there is a roadblock ahead and they give close pursuit (the chase car arrives as Finicum is exiting the truck). Where did they think Finicum would go? Where could he go? The stop was northbound on US 395 just north of NF-31 which intersects from the west. Between the stop and the roadblock there are two possible turnoffs: Gravel Ridge Way, and the parking lot for the Joaquin Miller Horse Camp. Both of which are on the left and both of which are snowed in.
Once at the roadblock Finicum immediately exited the truck with his hands raised. He is surrendering. He must have thought he was doing the right thing versus remaining in the truck, which might have been interpreted as holing up in preparation for a shootout. He does not know there is anyone in the woods. He is walking from the truck with his hands raised, his attention seems to be on the officer on the snowbank, he stumbles a little in the snow (it looks to be shin deep and crusty), and then appears to become confused. Is he receiving conflicting orders? I don’t know. I do know that he had his hands raised until a man came out of the woods and then Finicum starts turning right and left and is shot dead. It’s unclear if in the last moments he reached. He may have thought he was about to be executed and thought he could get out of his jam, or something else. I don’t know. It seems to me that he was surrendering, the man from the woods became involved, Finicum began to panic, twisting around from one officer to the other, and a second or two later he was dead.
I am not saying Finicum is without fault. I am saying the positioning of forces and conduct of officers practically guaranteed the outcome, whether intended or not.
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