This is the factory configuration of the SB15. Removing the velcro strap, filling the U shaped opening at the bottom or other alterations may be illegal according to sources. Only a ruling from the BATF will clear such questions up.
Posted on 04/09/2014 6:48:05 AM PDT by servo1969
Video- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMLO18kl98
Recently a Colorado police officer contacted the BATF to inquire about the legality of firing a pistol from the shoulder when equipped with a Sig SB15 brace. It doesn’t come as a surprise to me that the ATF said it’s perfectly legal to shoulder the “not-a-stock” device when attached to a pistol. I knew it was legal to shoulder the SB15 when it first hit the market as I had researched it years ago when AR15 pistols became popular and people were shouldered the stumpy extension tubes and firing them as if they were really short stocked rifles.
How is it legal, you may ask? The ATF defines firearms as either a pistol or a rifle and there really isn’t any grey area, at least in their minds. If they determine a device is a pistol, that means you can physically fire it any way you desire as there isn’t an illegal way to hold or shoot a handgun (yet). The BATF has explicitly stated that the SB15 does not change the classification of the host firearm from a pistol into a rifle and it’s perfectly legal to install and use it as you see fit — including firing it from the shoulder.
However, there may be one caveat no one is talking about.
In conversations with several attorneys and with a manufacturer who makes NFA products, it’s been said that you may only use the SB15 in its original factory configuration. If you alter that configuration you will potentially be in violation of NFA laws which carry a mandatory 10 year prison sentence without the possibility of parole. Yeah, that’s some serious voodoo.
This is the factory configuration of the SB15. Removing the velcro strap, filling the U shaped opening at the bottom or other alterations may be illegal according to sources. Only a ruling from the BATF will clear such questions up.
What would constitute altering the SB15? Well, filling the U shaped hole with something other than your forearm to make it more stock like would probably do it. How about removing the velcro strap used to secure the device to your forearm, or using Duct tape to reinforce the rigidity? Doing either could very well put you in violation of NFA laws too, so be very careful in how you alter the SB15. Doing something as mundane as super gluing it to the extension tube, so it doesn’t slide freely under recoil when shouldered, could be deemed to be an illegal alteration by the BATF. The only way we can know for sure what alterations are legal in the eyes of our masters is to submit, in writing, a request to the Technical Branch asking for their blessing. Not doing so and making alterations to your brace is recipe for legal disaster and I highly recommend you “don’t do dat”. Enjoy it the way it is.
As these awesome devices continue to gain in popularity, I’m sure other police departments will be reaching out to the BATF trying to get clarification as to the status of the device. If enough PD’s contact, or complain, to the BATF we could see a reversal of their decision. As a matter of fact, a leading NFA attorney that I’ve spoken with (David Goldman) thinks this is highly likely. He believes the BATF will ultimately reverse its ruling on the SB15 and make their sale and use illegal. This is, of course, speculation and nothing more.
I personally own and use a SB15. I opted to buy a Sig 556 Classic pistol complete with the “not-a-stock” device already attached so I would have some semblance of protection from an over zealous police officer who might see me shooting it as a rifle and ask to see my Form 4. I’ve used my SB15 equipped Sig 556 pistol as my official truck gun since it hit the market. I can legally transport the little gender bender across state lines without requesting approval from Uncle Sugar, something that is necessary with a SBR. The SB15 allows us to seamlessly side-step non-sensical NFA laws and have a short, handy rifle… I mean pistol… always at the ready no matter where we may be. And I love it.
I’ve been of the opinion that Sig knew exactly how we would wind up using the SB15 on our pistols but until now they’ve urged gun writers not to talk about it for fear of provoking the BATF into reversing their decision. Now that someone outside of Sig has contacted the BATF and gotten a determination letter, they’re asking writers to share this information with the community as they see it as being beneficial… and I agree, it is.
So, the proverbial cat is out of the bag and we’re are now able to go forth and circumvent the asinine NFA laws with reckless abandon! I will be coming out of the closet, so to speak, with my SB15 equipped Sig pistol in future videos. Until this news broke I purposely didn’t show it being fired from the shoulder in video because I didn’t want to be “that guy” that got the BATF to change their minds.
Here's the new 3-5-2014 letter from the ATF Technical Branch stating that shouldering an AR pistol with an SB15 Brace does NOT make it a rifle:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/216207869/SIG-BATFE-LETTER
Also- manufacturers are starting to make special buffer tubes specifically for use with the SB15 to make it more 'stable.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsP2MKsrZfs
Dumb question from someone who grew up in a blue state:
AR-15 rifles are still legal; why would you mod a pistol into a rifle?
Exactly
It's a great excuse to buy another rifle, IMHO.
Because this is a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) without the stupid NFA stamp and paperwork.
SBRs are rifles that have a barrel shorter than 16”. Just need a Krink version for us AK fans.
Well, at the very least to have a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16 inches requires a $200 tax stamp from the ATF which takes anywhere from 8 to 12 months to get. And then there’s the hassle of owning that NFA firearm.
An AR pistol has no such drawbacks. An AR pistol that can be fired comfortably from the shoulder is the best of both worlds.
Some people prefer short barrels, hence the SB designation. To own a short barrel rifle requires special permits. It appears that you can put a stock on the recoil tube of a AR style pistol without losing dthe pistol designation.
Thanks for all the informative replies!
Don't be surprised if the ATF does a 180 on this decision at any time. Then all these SBRs will be contraband.
Word to the wise: BEWARE ATF RULINGS!
We need to repeal the NFA and disband the BATFE.
I was waiting on buying ones of these for my mini draco. I think I will now get one.
I wonder what ATF will do if they watch me shoot mine from my forehead.
It can be done- upsidedown with an EOTECH.
So it fits in your car’s center console for your drive to the city.
F’em…..
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