Posted on 04/14/2013 9:31:12 AM PDT by marktwain
We suspected from media rumors that there was going to be an, “In the event of gun control, break glass,” strategy from the stronger Republicans. Unfortunately, the Toomey-Manchin deal has given real legs to this issue once again, and given murmurs from the House, including my own Congressman (not surprised), I don’t feel particularly good about the House. Getting a “true conservative” like Toomey on board with the deal, unfortunately, makes a lot of critters think “Well, if Toomey is on board, it must be OK!”
And so Senator Tom Coburn floats an alternative that I think would be far preferable, if I’m going to be required to pick my poison:
Dr. Coburn’s amendment would require a NICS check or validation permit to be presented for non-FFL transfers, exempting family transfers, estate/will transfers, and all temporary transfers.Screw going through an FFL being an alternative though. The alternative should be that FFLs can issue a validation to a prospective buyer, to facilitate a private sale for someone who doesn’t want to use the portal. Also, this all has to be with the FBI. ATF can’t have anything to do with this portal. In fact, I’d be happier with an independent agency, separate from the DOJ, running NICS.The requirement can be satisfied in one of four ways:
1) An FFL takes custody ofthe firearm in order to perform a background check on the transferee as mandated in Schumer original and Manchin-Toomey
2) Presentation oftemporary 30 day permit created by running a self-NICS check through a new consumer portal(details below)
3) Usage of a concealed carry permit or any other state issued permit that requires a NICS check to be conducted to obtain
4) Any other alternative that a state comes up with to satisfy the validation requirements for secondary and private market transfers. The amendment also includes a provision that places penalties on ATF agents that abuse records during audits, an IG report on the FBI’s 24 hour destruction rule compliance, a prohibition on records, a prohibition on centralizing records pertaining to gun ownership and a provision that allows states to assume primacy of enforcement of the background check law.
Consumer Portal
The new law will not go into effect until the consumer portal is up and running, and the law will be nullified if the consumer portal is permanently shut down or defunded.
- FBI shall provide a consumer portal through its website, mobile application, or other applicable medium to allow a potential transferee to run a NICS check on his/herself
- A successful background check will provide potential transferee with a temporary 30 day permit that validates he/she is not prohibited from legally purchasing or possessing a firearm
- The temporary permit can be used by the transferee for any private transfers in compliance with state or federal law during the 30 day time window
- The permit will be made available to the transferee as an electronic printable document, via a mobile application or other appropriate means
- The 30 day permit will provide the name, date of expiration of permit, and a unique pin number that can be used to verify activation by transferor
- The consumer portal will be designed with privacy protections so that only a prospective transferee can run his/her own NICS check
- The documentation provided by consumer portal will utilize necessary fraud protections
- A valid 30 day permit provided by the consumer portal that is verified with a valid governmentissued photo identification would suit the law’s requirements
- Information provided by prospective transferee to conduct background check through the consumer portal must be destroyed within 24-hours as occurs for FFL conducted background checks
The concern here is that the requirement that records not be kept by the FBI from the check are worth about as much as Cypriot deposit insurance. There needs to be independent, and regular auditing. While in this scheme, the seller presumably would keep the buyer’s certificate, there can’t be any requirement to do so. The enforcement mechanism for this is that if you sell to someone prohibited, obviously you didn’t run the check, and also the fact that most gun owners, to the utter shock of anti-gun folks everywhere, really don’t want to sell guns to criminals. Also, do we still get some things in return for the Coburn proposal? That would be a necessary component.
Again folks, what our options are depends on how people are communicating with lawmakers. If everyone who was lining up at gun shows at the start of all this were calling lawmakers, we would not be here. We worked a gun show to get people to contact, and the number of people who wouldn’t, because they just didn’t think it mattered, was very discouraging. Don’t be those people. Also, just be emphatic that you expect them to vote against all gun control measures, and that yes, background checks are gun control, no matter what Senator Toomey says. You wouldn’t accept background checks for Internet access (to make sure you’re not, say, a child porn convict). Firearms rights should not be any different.
The anti-freedom fascists will never approve of this, because it does not advance their agenda. In fact, it reverses it, because the next logical step is to allow the self-check to be used for FFL approved transfers.
It is a poison pill for the fascists.
How would any of it have stopped Adam Lanza or James Holmes?
Once the requirement is in place for all or most transfers to go through FFL’s the next step will be to regulate them out of business. See how easy that works?
It wouldn't, nor will it stop a single gang banger from arming himself and shooting up a block full of kids. It's the fascist's attempt to deprive the citizen of his rights by making it a nuisance to legally own a firearm.
Adam Lanza succeeded doing in Newtown what 0bama/Holder tried to do with F&F, plain and simple.
Why do you have to pick a poison? We have a constitution which addresses the subject. We have laws which are not being enforced or which are being enforced arbitrarily.
What is this constant urge to do something even if it's wrong?
You did not read the article, did you.
This amendment provides an alternative to FFLs, and puts in safeguards, including a way to audit that records from the current FBI system are actually destroyed.
Shall not be infringed... That means you can’t even make small steps because infringe means anything leaning towards control , not that those collectivists in Congress gave a damn about the oath they took.
The government, including the republicans, want the civilian population disarmed, period. The federal government has officially declared war on the Constitution and bill of rights, and will stop at nothing to implement their agenda. Defacto gun control will become law, and we can do nothing about it, except to willfully defy their unconstitutional decrees.
Doesn’t matter. This alternative won’t pass. The Toomey Manchinl bill is on track and will be the final version. My observation stands.
A+
It seems to me that they should stop targeting sales and start targeting criminals.
There are two broad types of persons associated with crime: convicted and non-convicted persons awaiting criminal trial.
1. Convicted criminals and their SSNs can be loaded into the portals.
2. TROs handle persons awaiting criminal trial. An accused is still innocent but courts have discretion to forbid firearms until a trial is complete. TROs reference SSNs and so these can be handled in a similar manner as convicted criminals.
Non-convicted persons who are wanted for a crime and haven’t been arrested yet need to be booked and brought to trial. If their ID is known, then subject to a warrant their information can be downloaded to portals.
Non-convicted persons implicated in a crime but with no identifying information must be handled by the public and law enforcement on a case by case basis. Such persons may remain unidentified in national portals so it falls to the public to pursue their information.
This leaves law-abiding people alone and free to exercise their rights. Otherwise a self-check clearance or whatever provides information that must be destroyed and between you and the fence post, you can forget information being destroyed in a total 100% manner. Information like energy can be transformed but never destroyed.
Freedom is preserved by never allowing the information to be created in the first place with exception for criminals.
NO. Period.
You want this federal "purchase permit" thing? Okay, then I want to be able to use this "permit" to buy any number of guns, anywhere in the US, from any private individual, gun store, distributor or manufacturer. And having this "federal purchase permit" would legally supersede any restrictive state laws.
I still don't like it, but we would at least be getting something in return. Of course something like this would never pass because we're always giving up ground for nothing in return.
Requiremnts that FBI delete records are worthless without individual govt employees being made PERSONALLY liable (civil and criminal) for illegally retaining info.
We don’t even own one gun, but I have written 3 emails to my Senators about this issue.
Gun Control Nazis do not want to stop criminals... they want to stop honest non-minority folks from owning weapons and defending themselves. Look at all the heavily Black populated cities with Gun Control and see the “success”
Gottlieb, Toomey, and Coburn have outdone the “progressives” at their own game.
The bill proposed has plenty of trojan horses in it for our side, and takes about 20 steps toward restoring our rights for a very small one backward.
I think the NRA will be with this one as well, and I think Obama may veto it. It is much like when Senator Coburn forced Obama to sign the guns in parks bill as part of the budget he wanted.
This has all kinds of stuff that Obama and the anti-freedom people hate. It is a real “compromise” in where we get a lot, and they get to save face, and get very, very little.
So you are saying we cannot take small steps back away from tyranny as well?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.