Posted on 07/20/2012 2:08:36 PM PDT by jmstein7
The fatal shootings in Colorado today underscore the dangerous consequences of so-called "gun control." Had but one - ONE - citizen in the the theater been lawfully armed, this tragedy could have been avoided. Instead, as a result of gun control, and those who peddle this dangerous - and unconstitutional - policy, an entire theater full of disarmed citizens were left defenseless - victims. This is an outrage.
Take notice that these crimes do not happen in Right-to-Carry states, such as Texas... it simply does not happen. The point is well conceded - by real statistics - that Right-to-Carry states have significantly lower rates of total violent crime (by 26 percent), murder (31 percent), robbery (50 percent!), and aggravated assault (15 percent). Armed citizens are safe citizens. Armed families are safe families. The proof is in the numbers.
The upshot to today's shootings should be vocal demands that our Federal and State governments STOP disarming us and let us defend ourselves! It is our constitutional RIGHT.
Call your local and state officials and DEMAND that our right to self defense, the right to bear arms, be preserved so that such tragedies can be avoided.
Posted on another site:
Why did the shooter choose a place where the people had no means to defend themselves?
I’m a Police Officer in North Dakota. I carry off-duty every day. Do I believe in gun control? To an extent, yes. Do I believe that people should still be allowed to purchase and carry concealed firearms? Yes. Do I believe that it would have changed the outcome of this at all? No.
In a dark theater, I doubt even I would be able to pinpoint who the shooter was, what with all the panicked people running around me, trying to get out. If I did return fire, with people everywhere, I’m just as likely to hit a civilian as I am the shooter. I would have drawn my firearm, but I wouldn’t have tried to shoot back, save for a contact shot if he came close enough for me to do so. I would have run for the exit with everyone else, and tried to push as many people out as I could.
Now, lets add tear gas, which our shooter also used, to this mess. I’ve been tear gassed before. It sucks. You go blind, and you start choking almost immediately. I could barely say my name or date of birth, and that was after 10 seconds of exposure. It took 20 minutes for me to recover. While choking on that shit, I guarantee I wouldn’t have been able to locate any one person in particular in a crowd.
Ruy Dias de Bivar mentioned that if you shot him in the “head, neck, legs, crotch, arms...” it would have stopped him. Picture this:
It’s in a dark theater. The only light present is that from the projector. It’s a midnight showing of a major movie, so the theater is packed with people. Now, they’re all running around, trying to escape someone shooting. The room is full of gas that’s causing you to choke, and your eyes to burn. He has a rifle. You have a pistol. You have to hit him in small, highly mobile areas such as the head, neck, or arms (possibly groin, depending on the type of body armor he had). What are your chances of hitting him in one of those highly specific areas, and not hit a single civilian?
Not odds I’d like to take.
It was a “gun free zone”
Exactly... The “gun free zone” policy made it a shooting gallery.
***Ruy Dias de Bivar mentioned that if you shot him in the “head, neck, legs, crotch, arms...”***
I didn’t say that. See my post #4. It is easy to confuse my comment with others like post # 20.
“What are your chances of hitting him in one of those highly specific areas, and not hit a single civilian?”
Well, gosh, I guess when a bad guy enters a crowded theater just run and hope not to be a victim.
“What are your chances of hitting him in one of those highly specific areas, and not hit a single civilian?”
Well, gosh, I guess when a bad guy enters a crowded theater just run and hope not to be a victim.
Right. My bad. I meant CodeToad. Wasn’t paying attention.
CodeToad: What else would you do? You’re criminally responsible if you hit a single other person.
Here’s a game you can play- go into a dark area, for instance, a garage and turn on a TV with “The Dark Knight” playing on it. Put on sunglasses, and sprint 100 yards to simulate the tear gas. Have one of your friends stand on one side of the garage, armed with an airsoft rifle, and you stand on the other side with an airsoft pistol. Have at LEAST 10 more of your friends running in between you two. He hits you anywhere, or you hit one of the runners, you’re out. You hit him in the arm, leg, head, or groin, he’s out.
Now, win 100 times in a row. If you can do that, I’ll believe that the situation would have been different if people in the audience were armed.
If sheeple stampede prevented a clean shot initially said minute of torso target would have presented itself eventually. I like to think my first reaction if alone would to seek cover or concealment. If with loved ones I would have heel toed parallel to the threat an away from the crowd to draw his fire at me as I emptied my first two mags at him as fast as possible to make HIM go to ground or flee . Shoot’n scoot per se. My SWAG on the what if’s and maybes.
As you well know arm chair quarterbacking is best left to Mas Ayoob...:o)
Bottom line opinion is me an mine do not go where it is advertised all victims are ....
Fair enough. I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate here anyway. I wasn’t there, so I can’t say one way or the other what I would have done. I like to think I would have tried to get the civilians to safety by laying down suppression-fire, then disappear between the seats and try to sneak around behind him for a contact shot to the head. But who knows? I may have been the first one shot anyway. Or (Due to all my training, I doubt it, but still, Devil’s Advocate) curled up and shit my pants quietly.
Agree... We shoot 3 gun, IDPA, train in a shoot house and blue on blue exercises with simunitions etc... My career is military, sheriffs deputy an contractor and a life long avid competive shooter. I carry a sidearm everyday an have a rifle in each of my vehicles.
Each situation is predictable if we stay condition red 24/7 and everyone is considered a threat. But relaxing and having fun like these folks were an to be ambushed in such a manner.
Heck I can’t say what I would have done, even with a fair background in the martial art of firearms during my lifetime.
We can only mitigate the damage. Hopefully said damage is on the criminal......
Stay safe, hope yer well...
You are either incredibly stupid or so-brainwashed that you can't think rationally. Do you really think that "one" person sitting on the opposite side of a crowded theater, 25 to 30 yards away, with a .380, 9 mm,.40, or even the over-idolized .45 could have taken out a shooter wearing body amour in a surprise attack in near darkness, without killing or wounding innocent people? One lawfully armed person would not have stopped this unless he or she was in close proximaty to the shooter and had the training or natural skillsets to assess, analyze, and respond effectively under battle conditions. Indeed, I'm willing to bet there were concealed carry people in the theater who either panicked and ran or didn't have the skills or oppurtunity to safely take this guy down.
This is not an argument against CCW, but rather, I am attacking the all or nothing stupidity that seems to dominate these discussions. Rather than arguing absolutes (i.e., if "ONE" person had been lawfully armed), the better approach is for almost everyone to be lawfully armed and trained to react in a crisis situation (think Israel). If a person doesn't want to be armed and trained, then he or she should pay a tax, similar to the Obamacare tax for failing to buy health insurance.
My point is that you don't help our cause by being the drama queen. Not every life or death crisis can be stopped by "one" person with a CCW permit.
“all victims are”
We, neither. They got the sign, we keep our cash.
Also, people fail to realize “body armor” isn’t always and it damn sure stings like mad. It’s an attention getter, and that’s all you need to get that critial shot in. First mag gets his attention, second one makes mash taters of his ‘puter.
Good points all. I carry 3 plus II mags for a Glock 35 I converted to 357SIg with a supported chamber Jarvis barrel. Rides in a crossbreed rig.... 125gr GDHP from Speer . Very comfy an all concealable as my CHL rig.
As to body armor... Early in my career I was hit with a .22 rimfire high on the left side of my vest (old second chance brand) ...... It stopped it yet hurt like h3LL ! That was just a .22 long rifle from a handgun. Can’t imagine what a full house hit would feel like.
Hope yer well CT !
Stay Safe ....
I would not feel comfortable firing at the assailant in a smoke-filled room.
My point exactly.
So is TX.
I think a kneecapping or shot in his foot or right in the nuts—or right beside them—would have been a good thing to do.
Lacking that, 2 in the chest would hurt. The guy doesn’t look like he is big on being hurt. This would have given people time to beat the living chit out of him.
A shot to the pelvis is pretty disabling, too.
Right on! It sure would not have made the situation any worse.
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