Posted on 12/17/2011 9:58:17 PM PST by Seizethecarp
Gutfeld: So, um, do you feel that you have settled that question about the origins of, ah, ah, President Obama's birth certificate?
Trump: Well, yeah, look, look, very simple, and you know I was on Barbara Walters yesterday she asked the question. Unfortunately, she cut the hell out of my answer and left like the last three words and people don't know what it, what it meant. Although I was honored to be on, but, you know, she cut that in, but she asked the same thing. Look, his mother, to the best of everybodies knowledge, was never in that hospital. OK. The document may have been tampered with according to many, many people. OK. You've got grandmothers and you have people in his family who say he wasn't born in this country. OK. Forgetting all of that, do I think he was born here? I have no Idea. I personally cannot say one way or the other. You know that the mother, there are no records. There are no records that the mother was ever in the hospital. With all of that being said, folks, I'd rather focus on the economy and jobs and how to get the country back. But, ah, If you ask me was he born (here?) I really can't tell you.
Again, Susan Blake is not credible by her misstatements.
Mary the babysitter is another liar and Zero supporter.
Sighting by John W. Hunt in June-Sept 1962:
“I had moved to Utah for a while after high school, and I came back to Seattle in the summer of 1962. I remember visiting the World’s Fair, and then stopping by Stanley Ann’s apartment on Capitol Hill. It was a small apartment, upstairs. It was after June, and could have been as late as September, 1962. I visited her for half a day or so. It was after the end of the spring quarter classes, and she wasn’t in classes, and didn’t have a job. I recall her being melancholy at the time. I had a sense that something wasn’t right in her.”
Zero was most likely being raised by Sara in Kenya.
There is no reliable information about the location of Obama Jr. from August 1961 to 1963.
Classes for Stanley started Sept 19, 1961 at Univ of WA. This is from people that have been there. Corsi’s wrong.
Again, Susan Blake is not credible by her misstatements.
Mary the babysitter is another liar and Zero supporter.
Sighting by John W. Hunt in June-Sept 1962:
“I had moved to Utah for a while after high school, and I came back to Seattle in the summer of 1962. I remember visiting the World’s Fair, and then stopping by Stanley Ann’s apartment on Capitol Hill. It was a small apartment, upstairs. It was after June, and could have been as late as September, 1962. I visited her for half a day or so. It was after the end of the spring quarter classes, and she wasn’t in classes, and didn’t have a job. I recall her being melancholy at the time. I had a sense that something wasn’t right in her.”
Zero was most likely being raised by Sara in Kenya.
There is no reliable information about the location of Obama Jr. from August 1961 to 1963.
Classes for Stanley started Sept 19, 1961 at Univ of WA. This is from people that have been there. Corsi’s wrong.
Did you have something pinpointing SAD still in HI in April? Thought she left during Xmas holiday break for Kenya with hubby. Or if actually married in HI after Feb?
Sorry, it was Sept 25 SAD would have started classes, not 19 of Sept. I believe WND and Corsi had it wrong.
WA state Calendar for School Year
for the fall quarter 1961 for which Dunham was enrolled,
indicating classes at the university began Sept. 25, 1961:
http://www.inthedays.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/090824uwcalendar.JPG.jpeg
Supposedly the Obama’s married during May 1961, in Hawaii. That appears on the divorce paperwork. Whether it is true or not, is anyone’s guess.
No the divorce papers on page 2 say were married Feb. 2, 1961 in Maui:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18130289/Obama-1964-Divorce-Papers-13-Pages-Missing-Pg-11
Also notice on Pg 2, Section I, Ann FALSELY attested on Jan. 20, 1964 that she “is now and for more than TWO years past has been a resident of Honolulu, City and County of Honolulu, State of Hawaii.”
At least TWO years prior would be Jan 20, 1962, when she had been in Washington state, enrolled at Univ of WA!
So who knows from these 2 documented liars where they were married, perhaps Kenya (bigamy laws in HI since O Sr. is already married) or perhaps not at all.
There are University of Washington transcripts that show Stanley was attending class. Also, there is a phone book record for her apartment in Seattle.
The folks in Seattle are keeping quite for some reason. Even the Susan Blake video interview has disappeared or very hard to find.
She disappeared from Hawaii because she and her hubby flew to Kenya to get Hussein Onyango Obama’s blessing in the marriage. That did not go well. In fact, Stanley Ann was to have no more contact with Barack Sr. So, I imagine Hussein Onyango Obama made a deal with her: I will finance your way to Seattle where you can finish you college degree at the U of W, Stanley’s old Leftist stomping grounds. The only problem is that British Airways would not let her on board until he had her baby (Barry). So she has the baby and both fly a polar route to Seattle. They may have actually landed in Vancouver B.C. and Stanley and baby continued down to Seattle by ferry. Obama Sr. continues to Hawaii and that’s the last time they saw each other until Barack was in the fifth grade in Hawaii (1972?).
Stanley Ann’s classes started in September 1961 but she was enrolled by August 19, 1961. Some Web sites say she started classes August 19, 1961. It is all trivial. Just think that Stanley Ann and baby Barry were in Seattle the Fall of 1961. The only explanation is that Barack Sr was told to separate from Stanley Ann by the Grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama after their visit to Kenya to get the customary paternal blessing. We need to consider the customs of Barack Sr’s culture when trying to connect all the dots here. Bottom line: Barack Sr and mother, Stanley Ann had to present themselves in person for the paternal blessing if a marriage were to be permitted. It looks like Barack Sr’s inheritance was put on the line and the permission was strongly rejected. Hussein Onyango Obama did not like white people because of his treatment by the British when he was a cook.
It was in June 1964 that Barack Sr met Ruth Beatrice Baker, during his studies at Harvard. She followed him back to Kenya in 1964 where they married. This marriage occurred after Barack Sr had received his A.M. degree in economics from Harvard. This tells me that Barack Sr’s father was holding his financial support for his education based upon his son’s choice of wife. Now that the education was over, that support did not matter. He could marry the white woman.
He was actually born on a boat between Lithuania and Argentina. They lived in Argentina for 9 years before coming to the US. His name is included, with his siblings, on his parents’ Citizenship papers.
I meant that the family has the papers that belonged to my grandparents in our possession, not that we had citizenship papers.
Those of us born here after our parents/grandparents became citizens are Natural Born citizens. In my case, I am first generation American-born on one side and second generation American-born on the other. My husband is first generation American-born on his father’s side and third generation American-born on his mother’s side. He has possession of his late father’s Citizenship papers.
You know: none of this mattered or was even mentioned much before zer0. My first husband’s father’s family go back to the American Revolution and they were very proud of that and it mattered a lot in some places up to perhaps the early 1960s. After that time, it seemed to be less and less important.
It has been verified by the Univ. of Hawaii that Stanley Ann was enrolled there for the fall semester of 1960. It has also been verified that she was enrolled at the Univ. of Washington for the fall semester of 1961. In fact, it had been that the only undisputed documents relative to Stanley Ann prior to 1964 were the statements of enrollment provided by those two universities.
There has now been published [FOIA] an INS file on Barack Obama the elder - covering his time at Univ. of Hawaii, and also his time at Harvard. In early 1961 he was trying to get an extension on his student visa. The chronology and content of those documents indicates that possibly Stanley Ann ‘married’ him as a favor, the thinking being that with a U.S. citizen spouse, deporting him would be less likely. [Interestingly, the scenario/circumstance was almost the same as a few years later when she married Lolo Soetoro as he was in the throes of facing deportation over his expired visa]
The INS documents on Obama tell how - after this process against him had begun unfolding, he suddenly announced - surprise, surprise - he had married a U.S. citizen. This didn’t go over too well with the Univ. of Hawaii, or the INS, because he already had a wife and child in Kenya. They were also concerned because Mr. Obama had been building a reputation on campus as someone whose motto was “All you gurlz’ panties R mine!”. The wording in the April 12, 1961 memo is:”If he were convicted of bigamy we might get a deportation charge but not before.” [A few years later, Harvard pressed the point; Sr. was informed he would have to complete his thesis in Kenya because they were booting him out for the same reason: moral turpitude.]
Of particular interest is this final sentence of the 4/12/61 memo [caps mine, for emphasis]:
“Recommend that Subject be closely questioned before another extension is granted - and denial be considered. IF HIS USC [U.S. Citizen] WIFE TRIES TO PETITION FOR HIM MAKE SURE AN INVESTIGATION IS CONDUCTED AS TO THE BONA-FIDE OF THE MARRIAGE.”
The first sentence of this memo is very curious [caps mine, for emphasis]:
“Mrs. McCabe, University of Hawaii, Foreign Student Advisor, called on 4/10/61 and reported that Barack H. Obama, a student at the University since 1959 was married on February 2, 1961 to Stanley Ann Dunham, a United states citizen FROM SEATTLE, WASHINGTON in Maui, Hawaii.”
This was written 4/12/61. According to Stanley Ann’s son, Barry - she graduated from the Mercer Island, Washington high school in [May or June] 1960, and she and her parents immediately moved to Hawaii. She had been enrolled at the University of Hawaii for the fall 1961 semester. By April 12, 1961 Stanley Ann and her parents had been legal residents of the state of Hawaii for approximately 9 months. So why does the INS describe Stanley Ann not as “a United States citizen resident of Hawaii who married Obama in Maui, but as “FROM” Seattle, Washington. She had not lived in [been “from”] Seattle since she was in the 8th grade. Her parents had moved there when she was in 8th grade, but a year later had moved to Mercer Island - closer to Bellevue, WA than to Seattle.
Another memo, dated 8/31/61, re: Obama, Barack H. A11938537 [caps mine]:
“U.S.C. spouse to GO to Wash. State University next semester.” “They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/61 - Barack Obama II, CHILD LIVING WITH MOTHER (SHE LIVES WITH HER PARENTS & SUBJECT RESIDES AT 1482 ALINEASTRE ST.)”
These documents can be seen/printed at Scribd; link is www.HeatherSmathers.com
Heather Smathers is the journalist who filed the FOIA request for the documents.
Because of the descriptive wording in these INS documents, I suspect Stanley Ann attended Univ. Hawaii for that 1961 fall semester, but that when she turned up pregnant she was hustled back to Washington - hence the INS referring to her as “from Seattle”. I also suspect that Barry was born somewhere in Washington state [or across the border in Canada]; that he won’t reveal his actual birth certificate because the student Barack Obama is not on that certificate as his father; that the already pregnant/shamefully unmarried Stanley Ann and the likely-to-be-deported-if-he-didn’t-get-another-visa-extension Obama entered into a quid-pro-quo: marriage of convenience/necessity/desperation. I suspect Obama,Sr. lied to the INS about the child being his, and where it was born - because it was essential for him to promote the charade of being its father.
I suspect all these things are the primary reason there is nothing - NOTHING - of Barry’s existance in Hawaii, or of his mother’s being in Hawaii [except for fall ‘61 semester] - until after Obama left Hawaii for Harvard in August, 1962. And even at that, there is no tangible evidence of Stanley Ann & Barry being there until photos of him when he appears closer to three than to two years old.
It’s been verified by the Univ. of Hawaii that Stanley Ann was enrolled there for the fall semester, 1960. It has also been verified that she was enrolled at the Univ. of Washington for the fall semester, 1961. In fact, the only undisputed documents relative to Stanley Ann prior to 1964 where those statements of enrollment.
There has now been published [FOIA] an INS file on Barack Obama the elder - covering his time at univ. of Hawaii, and also his time at Harvard. In early 1961 he was trying to get an extension on his student visa. The chronology and content of those documents and memos indicates that very possibly Stanley Ann “married” him as a favor, the thinking being that with a U.S. citizen spouse, deporting him would be less likely. [Interestingly, the scenario/circumstance was almost the same a few years later when she married Lolo soetoro as he was in the throes of facing deportation over his expired visa.]
The INS documents on Obama, Sr tell how - after this process against him had begun unfolding, he suddenly announced - surprise, surprise - he had married a U.S. citizen. This didn’t go over too well with the univ. of Hawaii, or the INS, because he already had a wife and child in Kenya. They were also concerned because Mr. Obama had been building a reputation on campus as someone whose motto was “All you gurlz panties R mine!”. the wording in the April 12, 1961 memo is: “If he were convicted of bigamy we might get a deportation charge but not before.” [A few years later, Harvard pressed the point; Sr. was informed he would have to complete his thesis in Kenya because they were booting him out of the U.S. for the same reason: moral turpitude.]
Of particular interest is this final sentence of the 4/12/61 INS memo [caps mine, for emphasis]:
“Recommend that Subject be closely questioned before another extension is granted - and denial be considered. IF HIS USC [U.S.Citizen] WIFE TRIES TO PETITION FOR HIM MAKE SURE AN INVESTIGATION IS CONDUCTED AS TO THE BONA-FIDE OF THE MARRIAGE.”
The first sentence of this memo is very curious [again, caps mine]:
“Mrs. McCabe, University of Hawaii, Foreign Student advisor, called on 4/10/61 and reported that Barack H. Obama, a student at the University since 1959 was married on February 2, 1961 to Stanley Ann Dunham, a United states citizen FROM SEATTLE, WASHINGTON in Maui, Hawaii.”
This was written 4/12/61. According to Stanley Ann’s son, barry - she graduated from Mercer Island, Washington in [May or June] 1960, and she and her parents immediately moved to Hawaii. She enrolled at the Univ. of Hawaii for the fall 1960 semester. By April 12, 1961, Stanley ann and her parents had been legal residents of the state of Hawaii for approximately 9 months. So why does the INS describe Stanley Ann not as “a United States citizen resident of Hawaii who married Obama in Maui, but as “FROM” Seattle, Washington. She had not lived in Seattle since she was in the 8th grade, Her family had moved to Seattle thenm but a year later had moved to Mercer Island - closer to Bellevue, WA than to Seattle.
Another memo, dated 8/31/61, re: Obama, Barack H. A11938537 [caps mine]:
“U.S.C. spouse to GO to Wash, State University next semester.” - and - “They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/61 - Bqarack Obama II, CHILD LIVING WITH MOTHER (SHE LIVES WITH HER PARENTS 7 SUBJECT RESIDES AT 1482 ALINEASTRE ST.)”
These documents can be seen/printed at Scribd; link is via www.HeatherSmathers.com Heather Smathers is the journalist who filed the FOIA request for the docs.
Because of the descriptive wording in these INS documents, I suspect Stanley Ann attended Univ. of Hawaii for that 1961 fall semester, but that when she turned up pregnant she was hustled back to Washington - hence the INS referring to her as “from Seattle”. I also suspect that Barry was born somewhere in Washington state [ or across the border in Canada]; that he won’t reveal his actual birth certificate because the student Barack Obama is not on that certificate as his father; that the already pregnant/shamefully unmarried Stanley ann and the likely-to-be-deported-if-he-didn’t-finesse-another-visa-extention Obama entered into a quid-pro-quo: marriage of convenience/necessity/desperation. I suspect Obama, Sr lied to the INS about the child being his, and where it was born - because it was expedient for him to promote the charade of being its father.
I suspect all these things are the primary reason there is nothing - NOTHING - of Barry’s existance in Hawaii, or of his mother’s being in Hawaii [except for fall ‘61 semester] - until after Sr. left Hawaii for Harvard in August 1962. Even at that, there is no tangible evidence of Stanley Ann and Barry being there until the photos of him when he appears closer to three than to two years of age.
Sorry for the double post - hit “post” for the earlier one, and after 1/2 hour it hadn’t budged, so I started over - retyped, and found some typos/errors - so the second post is superfluous, but... more accurate!
Susan Blake’s video account is correct. Stanley and baby Barry were there in Seattle the summer of 1961.
From where do you get confirmation of this information?
The question is; what would a mother with a 3 wk old child be doing traveling at that time? Was she traveling on her way back from Kenya via Washington to Honolulu?
I find the "Kenyan" birth theory to be very implausible. Some of the things wrong with the idea are mentioned in this American Thinker article. I find it far more plausible that Stanley Ann Dunham had been sent to live with her Aunt Eleanor Birkebile or Uncle Ralph Dunham in northwest Washington to avoid the humiliation of having a bi-racial child born in the community. It was a common practice to send young girls off to have babies out of wedlock, and the pressure would have been even greater for a bi-racial child. Madelyn Dunham was so ashamed of this situation that she didn't tell her co-workers at the bank she even had a grandchild. Not the act of someone who is proud. There seems to be a good chance Barry was born in Canada.
At that time, the international airport in Honolulu was just being built, and Stanley would not have been able to fly directly from Kenya to Honolulu, but only through Seattle. Also, before 1972 there were restrictions on newborns flying on planes before they were 6 weeks old. According to her University of Washington transcripts, Stanley started classes on August 19, 1961.
This restriction (do you have any evidence of this) is also a good reason to believe that Stanley was already in northwest Washington when Barry was born. Apart from that, I have seen evidence that shows the August 19th date to be a mistake. Classes didn't actually start until some time later. As far as I know, the only thing placing Stanly Ann in Washington in August is the commentary of Susan Blake, and I accept that as legitimate at this point.
Excellent post...except for several typo’s referring to SADO being at UH and turning up pregnant in the Fall of ‘61 when you meant to type Fall of ‘60.
I have yet to see any piece of evidence come forward which might poke a hole in the Obama Born in Washington/Canada theory. I've seen plenty of holes poked in the "born in Kenya" theory, but none for the Born in Washington/Canada theory.
Personally, I prefer to believe the born in Canada theory because of the consequences it would have if it turns out to be true. :)
I will of course, accept only what the facts demonstrate, and if someone can present some fact which disproves the born in Canada theory, I will of course discard it. At the moment though, it looks like a pretty good theory.
Trump on the phone with FOX’s “The Five” Ping.............
Thank you, seizethecarp.
Thanks for the ping.
My first thought on this is, Why is The Donald bringing this back up now?
Well, it can only be as you theorize: These five anti-birther Obama-defenders on Fox must have been instructed from On High that the birther issue seems to be raising its ugly head again. So, get the Donald on your show and get him to make another brief statement.
Which he did. And then they cut it, because even that ambiguous statement went a bit beyond “I don’t know.” Nothing about the main point, however, that the new long-form COLB, produced by Obama because of the Donald’s earlier rants, is another obvious forgery.
Trump is a liberal. His work in real estate has involved him in Crony Capitalism of the most obvious kind. His donations have almost all been to Democrats, and to a few corrupt RINOs. I still think the whole business was staged, to make an excuse for producing the new fake COLB after two years of delay, and knowing that the bin Ladin raid was waiting in the wings to distract attention immediately afterward. Otherwise, how to account for all those loyal Obamanoid talking heads giving Trump air time to do it?
The same thing again, now.
The good news is that evidently the Obama bosses have concluded that the birther issue still refuses to die, so it’s time to give it another staged whack on the head from a guy whom most people still naively think is a birther.
The handwritten memo seems pretty odd, as if added after the fact, since no child was mentioned on the other form of the same date. A previous memo was typewritten. Would an inspector have time to go track down information about the wife and child and file it the same day ... and especially when other sources say she was already in Washington before the end of August?
“Nothing about the main point, however, that the new long-form COLB, produced by Obama because of the Donald’s earlier rants, is another obvious forgery.”
Trump emphasized three points, punctuated by “OK” INCLUDING “The documents may have been tampered with,” showing signs of going down his list, as he does with his serial media appearances on a given day where he delivers the same talking points each “interview”
1. “Look, his mother, to the best of everybody's knowledge, was never in that hospital. OK.”
2. “The document may have been tampered with according to many, many people. OK.”
3. “You've got grandmothers and you have people in his family who say he wasn't born in this country. OK.”
On timing, I believe that Trump is aware of the Arpaio posse's “devastating” results and wants to get on record in advance of the release of those results as having NOT been punked by Obama’s fake BC. I believe that Murdock and Ailes are doing the same thing by allowing Trump to get these three points on the air, unlike The View where Trump was censored.
All of The Five appear to have been instructed in advance NOT to seriously challenge Trump on any of these incendiary allegations, including Beckel who is not shy in defense of Obama and Perino who was visibly smothering herself biting her tongue.
Immediately after Trump pushed through his three points THE SUBJECT WAS CHANGED!!!...to by Tanteros to “When will you make an endorsement?”
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