Posted on 08/11/2011 1:48:27 PM PDT by Celerity
Thank you for taking the time to read my Vanity post.
A lot of people here, and in my face-to-face world, have mentioned that the mobs, riots and looting that is occuring around the world would take a different path here in the US, in areas where people are allowed to carry firearms, and use them in accordance with both laws and sensibility.
And it's the Sensibility portion of that I would like to discuss.
Everytime I measure and imagine (Simulations!) my response to violent flash mobs or rioters, I come up snake eyes. Here are two of such scenarios that I play out in my mind:
#1 I'm in my local convenience store, buying .. i dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes and gasoline. Suddenly the front door swings open and the place is rushed by 10 or more teens who are screaming, destroying the store and running out with items.
#2 I'm dropping off some things at the post office to mail out. Say, I dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes. An orchestrated attacks begins throughout my downtown area. 50, 100, 200 people start throwing rocks through windows, molotov cocktails, bricks, porn mags or stale cigarettes through store windows, setting fires or what-have-you.
We have heard around these parts how the outcome would be different were an armed populace involved. Well, "Here I am" . Now what ?
At what point in these events will it be both legal, and importantly: Prudent to present a firearm ? In the convenience store example, I have seen as few as 3 people cause so much ruckus that a knife was drawn and a kid was stabbed almost instantly. The kid didn't even know he was stabbed in the chaos. In the riot situation, Hiding or just leaving is the important decision, but are there scenarios that change that play ?
I see innocent people being hurt in riots all the time. But when is it time to draw a firearm and use it? I don't see the immediate danger to myself (Unless I'm the target of the protest, such as at a Union rally).
Help me connect some dots and make a correct decision.
Thanks !
-> Steve
How true. Most of these “flash mob” fools both FEAR and RESPECT anyone who has a CCW.
Best answer so far! Couldn't have said it better.
Regards,
GtG
I tell my girls this....
"Be professional, and be polite. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
Now that is sort of funny to them....but it makes them think.
Tell the 911 operator that you have already shot a perp and see what the response time is.
You definitely need bigger magazines!
Regards,
GtG
And that's what I answered to.....
Freeper: “A riot will be different in the US”
Celerity: “Why?”
FR:”Because we are an armed population.”
C:”How? How will being armed affect the outcome?”
FR:”No one would escalate violence when they are surrounded by sensible gun owners!”
C:”How would a sensible gun owner deploy their weapon in any of these violent situations? How, when all appropriate tactics point to ‘run and hide’ or ‘don’t shoot vandals and shoplifters’ will sensible gun owners deter riots or flash mobs?”
Chris Matthews: “A day of legal, constitutional protest was cut down by the crack of gunfire when a tea-party terrorist opened fire on several children today. Children; he thought, were somehow going to kill him. This tea party must be disbanded, arrested and tried in Guatanamo!”
The general, ignorant public as directed by the media: “YEAH! KILL RIGHTY!”
You can see by this back-and-forth, I am looking for a roadmap (of sorts) to see how we can win, before the SHTF. Either way I see it, this is a critical moment in the history of the United States. A turning point.
A righteous shot can’t be attained when the righteous answer to play it cool, and keep to the fundamentals of fight or flight.
As they say, you want to create space. Anyone inside that space should be considered there to do you harm. From that point on it’s tactical not legal.
I see a lot of people that say property can be replace, and it can.
But there are plenty of people that loosing a truck is more than in inconvenience. It would mean loosing their only transportation, then their job, then their means of putting food on the table...
I view someone willing to throw a molotov cocktail throw someone’s truck or home window already decided for themselves their life was worth less than that property.
It doesn't mean they have to lose their life for that, but they might.
Learn to use reflecting surfaces to monitor what's around you. Know potential hostiles are heading for the door BEFORE they come in.
Identify defensible points in a building when you walk in. Corners, secondary exits/escape routes.
Stay out of windows.
No heroes -- if the mob is flowing past, let it flow. If the looters are looking for merchandise, don't stand in their way. If someone just wants a wallet, they can have it.
One chance -- "Please leave me alone." There. I asked nice. Warning shots are what the SECOND person to go down hears -- just before he goes down.
No "brandishing" or "showing" with a mob. A hostile should see the gun less than a second before it sees the muzzle flash.
That being said, if you are smart enough to get in a defensible position -- have the weapon out but down. You can't outdraw someone charging or pointing a weapon at you.
Once you've pulled the trigger, it's carved in stone. Anyone else reacts by moving TOWARD you is a threat.
Never stop with an empty mag. Even if the threat seems to be over -- reload.
I see a lot of people that say property can be replace, and it can.
But there are plenty of people that loosing a truck is more than an inconvenience. It would mean loosing their only transportation, then their job, then their means of putting food on the table...
I view someone willing to throw a molotov cocktail throw someone’s truck or home window already decided for themselves their life was worth less than that property.
It doesn't mean they have to lose their life for that, but they might.
I think the simple answer is that an armed society will not stop the troublemakers from burning down their neighborhoods, it will probably stop them from doing the same in less urbanized areas.
There are areas that I just cannot see a reason to visit and I don’t roam around late at night, I have not seen a reason to employ a firearm since I was young which happened to be when I roamed around in bad areas late at night.
I like the way this puts it....
And, on giving warnings before engaging someone, “What are you trying to do? Turn it into a sporting event?”
Ever come across someone you shouldn’t of fucked with, well that’s me
Clint Eastwood Gran Torino
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Let them try that crap in Texas.
“One riot, on Ranger.”
But it won’t be the Rangers that they will have to worry about. CCL adds just the right level of uncertainty to a criminal’s limited thinking - “do I feel lucky?”
“You can’t shoot people for trashing a store and shoplifting. You can’t shoot people for being caught in mob mentality, or for vandalizing property.”
Only recently true, as the commies were able to pass their “hope bag “ of laws.
Have your legislators pass Florida style laws immediately.
As for what America once had on record as per the Founders, “If ever property were not considered semi-sacred, horrid mischief would ensue.”
Note that Horrid Mischief squats in the White Hut, and that his ‘tribe’ is rioting. Pass laws to allow use of lethal force to protect property, if your state does not already have them, and then the problem will go away. Either on its own accord or carried off.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-Day-of-Rage/199185230105826?s
Obviously everything varies by state. Jurisdictions (most recently Pennsylvania) which have a “castle law” typically extend protection (both criminal and civil) to citizens on the street who reasonably fear for their lives.
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