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Flash mobs in an armed populace ? (Vanity)
Self | 8/11/11 | Celerity

Posted on 08/11/2011 1:48:27 PM PDT by Celerity

Thank you for taking the time to read my Vanity post.

A lot of people here, and in my face-to-face world, have mentioned that the mobs, riots and looting that is occuring around the world would take a different path here in the US, in areas where people are allowed to carry firearms, and use them in accordance with both laws and sensibility.

And it's the Sensibility portion of that I would like to discuss.

Everytime I measure and imagine (Simulations!) my response to violent flash mobs or rioters, I come up snake eyes. Here are two of such scenarios that I play out in my mind:

#1 I'm in my local convenience store, buying .. i dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes and gasoline. Suddenly the front door swings open and the place is rushed by 10 or more teens who are screaming, destroying the store and running out with items.

#2 I'm dropping off some things at the post office to mail out. Say, I dunno.. Porn mags and stale cigarettes. An orchestrated attacks begins throughout my downtown area. 50, 100, 200 people start throwing rocks through windows, molotov cocktails, bricks, porn mags or stale cigarettes through store windows, setting fires or what-have-you.

We have heard around these parts how the outcome would be different were an armed populace involved. Well, "Here I am" . Now what ?

At what point in these events will it be both legal, and importantly: Prudent to present a firearm ? In the convenience store example, I have seen as few as 3 people cause so much ruckus that a knife was drawn and a kid was stabbed almost instantly. The kid didn't even know he was stabbed in the chaos. In the riot situation, Hiding or just leaving is the important decision, but are there scenarios that change that play ?

I see innocent people being hurt in riots all the time. But when is it time to draw a firearm and use it? I don't see the immediate danger to myself (Unless I'm the target of the protest, such as at a Union rally).

Help me connect some dots and make a correct decision.

Thanks !

-> Steve


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; flashmob; flashmobs; guns; selfdefense
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To: Celerity

21 posted on 08/11/2011 2:10:22 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ladyjane

Bug out bag. However, for some, a BOB may be a good idea. Especially if it takes awhile for your husband to meet up at your alternate meeting spot if your home is gone and the bridges are out.


22 posted on 08/11/2011 2:11:32 PM PDT by 21twelve (Obama Recreating the New Deal: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts)
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To: Celerity
I think the difference is between a flash mob, and a sustained riot like they have in London. In a flash situation they are prepared and you are not. You are fighting on their terms, without a plan and outnumbered. You do not know what kind of weapons the enemy has or how proficient they are in using them. It is never a good idea to fight under such disadvantageous conditions if there is a viable alternative. When you are caught in an ambush, and that is what a flash mob is, main thing is to disengage if possible. So in the situations of the liquor store, first run out the back if you can, stand and fight if cornered.

In a sustained riot like the ones in London there is a chance to get together with like minded individuals and either fort up or form a vigilance committee. If you have a group already organized all the better. Many preppers have body armor and Kevlar makes the perfect fashion accessory for such situations. Unlike the liquor store you are prepared, armed and ready for trouble. While outnumbered by the yobs you will at least have someone to watch your six. You are fighting on known ground which gives you a big advantage. Under those circumstances things would be very different in an armed society.
23 posted on 08/11/2011 2:12:21 PM PDT by GonzoGOP (There are millions of paranoid people in the world and they are all out to get me.)
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To: Celerity

You had me at “carry firearms, and use them” ...


24 posted on 08/11/2011 2:13:24 PM PDT by tumblindice (love for sale)
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To: ladyjane; rockrr
Baby On Board (?!)
25 posted on 08/11/2011 2:13:41 PM PDT by astyanax (Liberalism: Logic's retarded cousin.)
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To: Parley Baer

The self defense laws in Kalifornia are quite simple: you are NOT PERMITTED to harm a Democrat voter!


26 posted on 08/11/2011 2:14:45 PM PDT by Oldpuppymax
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To: ladyjane

Do they make those with a radio/LED flashlight combo?


27 posted on 08/11/2011 2:16:05 PM PDT by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: ladyjane

Well, if BOB is the man for the job. And a few laughs won’t hurt your feelings.


28 posted on 08/11/2011 2:16:59 PM PDT by SuzyQue
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To: Ellendra

Never, ever pull a gun, rifle or weapon unless the situation necessitates its use AND you are willing to handle the consequences of that use.

A weapon is not to be brandished just to warn people. If ALL you want to do is give a warning, give a verbal warning but don’t pull a weapon. There is too much chance of the situation escalating. If you are not prepared to use it, then your antagonist might be and just might take it away from you.

Decide in your own mind under which situations you will use your weapon. If you are not sure, ask someone you trust & respect. Ask local law enforcement. Ask your lawyer. Ask your pastor or priest. Ask your spouse.

Think through the consequences LONG BEFORE you ever carry a weapon.

Full disclosure: I do not carry a weapon. I do not have CCW. I did spend a number of years in the USMC where I qualified EXPERT with the .45, .38. M-14 and M-16. I have carried & used weapons in combat. I have checked a .45 out of the armory in peacetime while on foreign soil in order to transport payrolls, classified documents and cryptographic codes off-base. Each time I was required to re-read the current rules of engagement, initial each and every paragraph and sign the document. Folks with far more experience and wisdom than I thought through all the ramifications and developed these procedures. I was grateful.


29 posted on 08/11/2011 2:18:41 PM PDT by BwanaNdege (For those who have fought for it, Life bears a savor the protected will never know.)
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To: Ellendra

Drop the first and last one in and then start on the middle.
LLS


30 posted on 08/11/2011 2:19:34 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Certified Al Palin Hobbit Terrorist)
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To: Celerity
Make sure you live somewhere armed self defense is legal, and be prepared to defend yourself.

I don't want any part of what will happen in the large urban areas, it will be difficult for the cops to distinguish good guys from the bad, and the cops will err on the side of self preservation.

31 posted on 08/11/2011 2:19:42 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, A Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Parley Baer

Better check Cali laws, fleeing Molotovs is a good idea anyway. In Florida one can shoot with any reasonable fear of life.


32 posted on 08/11/2011 2:20:05 PM PDT by omega4179 (Obama Downgrade)
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To: ladyjane; astyanax
Haha! With the "magic fingers" option?!

What I was referring to is a Bug Out Bag. A backpack that contains essential supplies to last 72 hours in the event off most nearly anything survivable.

33 posted on 08/11/2011 2:21:28 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Grunthor
ditto that...with one correction.

"I was in fear of my families lives, and my own...."

34 posted on 08/11/2011 2:21:33 PM PDT by Osage Orange (HE HATE ME)
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To: Celerity

Just a nit on #2 - it’s against federal law to carry a firearm on post office property.

Now I’ll finish reading your thread and the replies...


35 posted on 08/11/2011 2:21:59 PM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Celerity

I work for the Border Patrol and have been in more riots than I can remember. One of the most problematic things about mass violence or rioting is the overwhelming chaos.


36 posted on 08/11/2011 2:22:03 PM PDT by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: Gena Bukin

We already covered that fake war hero, and psychopathic killer.


37 posted on 08/11/2011 2:24:32 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Bristol Palin's book "Not Afraid Of Life: My Journey So Far" became a New York Times, best seller.)
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To: Brett66

Rule number 1:

NEVER PULL A GUN UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO USE IT

Rule number 2:

READ RULE NUMBER ONE AGAIN

LLS


38 posted on 08/11/2011 2:24:32 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Certified Al Palin Hobbit Terrorist)
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To: tsowellfan
Call the Cops/ Are you kidding me, do you realize the average response time for a 911 call is 18 minutes. All the Cops will do is fill out a bunch of paper. Call the Cops my A*&.Those Thugs Mugs and Mutts know they can run into a store vandalize and be gone in 10 minutes, and the Cops are still eating doughnuts. Get Real.
39 posted on 08/11/2011 2:25:08 PM PDT by BooBoo1000 (Ear more"KIMCHI".)
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To: Celerity
There are only two conditions under which you may draw (if you can draw, you can fire):

1. You are directly threatened with bodily harm.

2. Someone in your company (I suppose it could be somebody in your immediate vicinity whom you do not know) is directly threatened with bodily harm.

Of course you can use a weapon to stop a physical assault to you or somebody in your direct company.

I believe it to be illegal to shoot somebody who is burning somebody else's property that you are not in.

However, if you are in a building and somebody throws a molotov cocktail at it, shoot the hell out of them.

40 posted on 08/11/2011 2:26:30 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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