Posted on 05/16/2011 5:39:41 PM PDT by TheConservativeCitizen
Presbyterians clear way for ordaining gays, lesbians
- The regional presbytery of Minnesota just voted to allow the ordination of gay clergy, it is the 87th of 173 presbyteries to vote to allow active homosexuals to serve as elders, ministers, and deacons. With this vote, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the church of President Reagan, amends its constitution to erase clauses that describe homosexuality as sinful and incompatible with ministry. PC(USA) joins the Unitarian Church, Episcopal Church, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America as a fully gay inclusive church. Several other denominations are on the brink of following suit. The United Methodist Church, the third largest religious body in America, does not ordain gays, but has approved a full communion with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America that does. The Catholic Church, America’s largest denomination, preaches that homosexuality is a sin, but the majority of Catholics do not share the views of the leadership, only 22% of Catholics oppose legal recognition for gay couples.
“Reactions to this change will span a wide spectrum. Some will rejoice, while others will weep,” reads a conciliatory letter sent by denominational leaders to the congregations of PC(USA), “Those who rejoice will see the change as an action, long in coming, that makes the PC(USA) an inclusive church that recognizes and receives the gifts for ministry of all those who feel called to ordained office. Those who weep will consider this change one that compromises biblical authority and acquiesces to present culture. The feelings on both sides run deep.” Opponents of the change, both within PC(USA) and from other denominations were defiant. Dr. Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, stated on his blog that “This most recent decision sets the stage for the total capitulation of this church to the normalization of homosexuality — an act of open defiance against the Scriptures.” and that “This is yet another tragedy in the sad history of mainline Protestantism’s race toward total theological disaster.”
As homosexuality becomes more and more mainstream in American culture, it will be interesting to see how Christian denominations respond. Some will become gay inclusive, others will leave the decision to individual churches or local bodies within the denomination, others still will attempt to resist internal and external forces pushing for the normalization of homosexuality. The separation of church and state grants churches complete freedom to decide internal matters without interference from local or federal government, nevertheless if the values of the church become alien to the culture around it, the church risks decline and social marginalization as a bigoted or discriminatory institution.
So they are no longer Christians?
Christ directed that we love our brothers and sisters but not that we accept or promote their sins......
How does a “Christian” spread the good news if they are a non repentant sinner?
>> the church risks decline and social marginalization as a bigoted or discriminatory institution.
This so called “inclusive church” risks eternal damnation by embracing, condoning and celebrating those sins God Almighty has proscribed. That’s a fate far worse than “social marginalization” or being considered “bigoted” by those outside of Christ.
Mommy - what’s a Presbyterian? And why aren’t they around anymore?
The problem is not exactly the way you state it, since all Christians are not perfect and spread God’s Word imperfectly and live it imperfectly.
The real problem is that there are some Christians that have decided on their own, against the clear Word of God, that certain behavior clearly identified as sin, terrible sins, are now, no longer sins, but are instead, now GOD-PLEASING behaviors.
It is heterodox theology (ie wrong). The real question is how do we deal with “Christians” that are deliberately and knowlingly spreading false Christian theology, thus leading to confusion and discord among the body of Christianity.
Making a sincere effort to reason with them, as Paul says, is the first step. This may continue for awhile, to see if the Holy Spirit will work on these people. Fervent, sincere prayer that these people repent of their heterodox theology is necessary. If they do not change, one must separate from them in order to make it clear we are not yoked to them, to prevent confusion from spreading and to prevent the heterodox beliefs from infecting the rest of the body of Christ.
Yikes. I used to be a proud Presbyterian when I was younger (I identified it with my Scottish heritage and my family going to Hollywood Pres) but I guess no longer.
Amen!
This isn’t a issue of being “non-repentant”. It’s worse.
They are reprobates and false prophets who “knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but consent also to them that do them”. (see Romans 1:26-32) Note carefully that the judgment here is God’s judgment, not a justification for a secular criminal code prohibiting homosexuality with a death penalty.
The PCUSA is organizationally anathema to the Christian Church. I wouldn’t judge its individual members, but neither would I fellowship with them.
I would like everyone to not elevate the homosexual lifestyle to a “special” sin. We should treat it as Sin, like theft and adultery.
Would the Presbyterian Church also ordain a known serial adulterer?
I think that when we elevate the homosexual sin we place it in its own category that allows them to cry victim hood and further separate their sin from other sins. I find it difficult to discuss the sin with homosexual friends because they are able to claim this “special” victim status. I try to frame it in a sin is sin discussion just like I have sins that I need to account for and struggle with.
The fact is that they belong in church and if we relegate it to regular sin then we might be able to move forward with it. But to pretend that God has a special place in hell for homosexuals is counterproductive and also untrue.
Are they amending the Bible to remove those relevant clauses too, or is that on next year's agenda?
Nuff said..........
Some sins are worse than others and should be dealt with more than others.
Especially when those sins are being called “normal”, “God pleasing” and secular culture is forcing the sin down our throats.
If you are thinking that’s hypocritical, so be it. I am not at all averse to throwing in any and all heterosexual sins as being as serious as homosexuality. Rape, molestation, fornication, bestiality, all those can be elevated too.
The difference - taking your example of adultery - is that most adulterers know they are sinning, their churches are not preaching that what they are doing is okay or god-pleasing and they are only behaving the way God made them. They are not out advocating for “adulters’ rights” and are not demanding access to schoolkids to talk about how great it is to be an adulterer, or marching in Adulterer Pride parades during Adulterer Pride month.
That is the big difference between homosexuality and all other sins at this particular moment in history. 50 years ago we would not even be having this discussion.
Further, from your posting, you obviously have not read my post that well. All of the stuff you bring up has nothing to do with what I posted. I believe you read what you wanted to read in to my post and projected your own bias towards people who have a real problem with churches focusing on a rather severe sin problem these churches themselves are encouraging by their false prophet leaders. These people are preaching what itching ears want to hear.
God even lists sins that are severe in his eyes. He also gave different levels of severity to various sins, so obviously not all the sins are viewed at the same level according to him.
to disregard the seriousness of homosexuality undermining the family unit as God intended it to be, the first foundational building block of humanity, is ignorant at best. These people are implacable. Nothing is enough for them. first it’s to be left alone. then to acknowledge they exist. then to tolerate them being out. And proud. Then you have to not only tolerate them you have to accept them. Now it’s their human/civil right to marry. And have kids, and get into the schools and expose your children to their wickedness. And now start legal actions and punishments against those that speak ill of their evil.
They will never be placated by any of this because DEEP DOWN
they know they are screwed up and not acting normal, and nothing in this world can make that feeling go away.
Adulterers aren’t kidding themselves or asking for approval from society or the church - they know they are doing wrong and are embarrassed by it.
I don’t think that we are that far off from each other.
My thoughts are that by beating them over the head about it only reinforces their belief that Christians hate them. They have it in their head that “Christians” are mean and hate them. If Christians focus more on the message and coming to Christ then the rest will come out in the wash.
I know a few that have said that hell must be their destination and they should just live it up. I don’t believe that is necessarily true if they do what the bible suggests.
I think this is not as easy as we want to make it. Sin is sin and all deserve death. In my mind it is a case by case basis just like all of humanity. Some claim to be followers of Christ but are not so we have to test them with the bible to know the truth.
Episcopalians do not recognize the authority of the Pope. Neither do they recognize one another, nor Presbyterians, in the liquor store.
This applies only to the PCUSA. There are Presbyterian denominations that adhere to biblical teaching - the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and the Presbyterian Church in America - to name two.
You’re absolutely correct. Sin is sin, an we’ve all sinned and come short of the glory of God. From my very limited perspective, adultery is generally a far more harmful sin than sodomy since the former actually destoys families.
The problem with the PCUSA is that is celebrates certain types of sin. This is distilled evil, not sodomy per se.
I think Hollywood Pres (and most of us who grew up Presbyterian) are PCUSA.
My husband and I were members of a PCUSA church many years ago. We are now members of an OPC congregation. It’s a wonderful church that preaches the Word of God faithfully.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.