Vanity - What were the economic reasons for the Soviet Collapse?

[tired1]

Aside from the obviuous shortcommings of central planning, I'm interested in the circumdtances which caused the USSR to implode. Was it inability to meet foreign obligations?

Would appreciate opioions and any sources.

[One Name]

Wasn’t familiar with the “ Bohemian Grove”- found this:

What activities take place at the grove? The grove is the site of a two week retreat every July (as well as other smaller get-togethers throughout the year). At these retreats, the members commune with nature in a truly original way. They drink heavily from morning through the night, bask in their freedom to urinate on the redwoods, and perform pagan rituals (including the “Cremation of Care”, in which the members wearing red-hooded robes, cremate a coffin effigy of “Dull Care” at the base of a 40 foot owl altar). Some (20%) engage in homosexual activity (but few of them support gay rights or AIDS research). They watch (and participate in) plays and comedy shows in which women are portrayed by male actors. Although women are not allowed in the Grove, members often leave at night to enjoy the company of the many prostitutes who come from around the world for this event. Is any of this hard to believe? Employees of the Grove have said that no verbal description can accurately portray the bizarre behavior of the Grove’s inhabitants.

Glad Sarah hasn’t been invited.

My personal opinion is that she does in fact have have the blessing of God to lead this nation. I’ll be called out as a fool, but those who would have said a shepherd boy would defeat Goliath and become King of Israel were similarly disdained.

[Army Air Corps]

China has more internal divisions and tensions than did the USSR. It is within the realm of possibility that these divisions can be exploited.

[oyez]

I was throwing some humor into a tragic event. I hope the SOB Cronkite was happy with his conscious from then on.

[Vendome]

LOL. I am 2 hours south of the BG.

Really? You never heard of it?

Big wigs go there and act like they are Masons or Dead Poet Society types.

BTW, why did you ping me?

[Vendome]

Geeze! That was harsh. LOL

[Vendome]

That is a funny and terrific explanation.

[tired1]

Was a student of Kennan but not a fan. He was too content with maintaining relations enstead of changing them, same with Zbig To be fair perhaps he was just a product of his politacal environment. It took Reagan to challange the status quo.

[ETL]

Did Communism Fake Its Own Death in 1991?
American Thinker ^ | January 16, 2010 | Jason McNew

In a bizarre 1984 book [New Lies for Old], ex-KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn predicted the liberalization of the Soviet Bloc and claimed that it would be a strategic deception. ..."

"Golitsyn's argument was that beginning in about 1960, the Soviet Union embarked on a strategy of massive long-range strategic deception which would span several decades and result in the destruction of Western capitalism and the erection of a communist world government."

"Golitsyn published his second book, The Perestroika Deception, after the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. This book contained further analysis of the liberalization, in addition to previously classified memoranda submitted by Golitsyn to the CIA. The two books must be read together to get a complete picture of Golitsyn's thesis."

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/did_communism_fake_its_own_dea.html

[Vendome]

You must be tired. LOL

ReaFan’s....

[Vendome]

Another detail I failed to mention:

Lech Walesa

[tired1]

I’m unemployed, I have time ;(

[ETL]

Russia's Medvedev hails "comrade" Obama

Associated Foreign Press (AFP) ^ | April 2, 2009 | Anna Smolchenko

"Russia's Dmitry Medvedev hailed Barack Obama as "my new comrade" Thursday after their first face-to-face talks"

http://www.france24.com/en/20090402-russias-medvedev-hails-comrade-obama

April 1, 2009:
"Obama, Medvedev pledge new era of relations":
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090401/wl_afp/usrussiadiplomacynuclear_20090401152002
______________________________________________________________

President Obama and Venezuela dictator Hugo
Chavez at the 2009 Summit of the Americas in Trinidad.
Note the "soul bro" handshake. (my caption)

Obama, Chavez shake hands at Americas Summit:
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/17/2698451-obama-chavez-shake-hands-at-americas-summit
______________________________________________________________

From the Russian News and Information Agency:
July 27, 2006
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060727/51913498.html
______________________________________________________________

“We are creating a new world, a balanced world. A new world order, a multipolar world,” Chavez told reporters during a visit to Communist China, one of many. His “new world order” includes [RUSSIA], China, Iran,... and a significantly weakened United States, he explained.

Resurgent Communism in Latin America
by Alex Newman, March 16, 2010:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/south-america-mainmenu-37/3122-resurgent-communism-in-latin-america?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=
______________________________________________________________

From the Sino-Russian Joint Statement of April 23, 1997:
"The two sides [China and Russia] shall, in the spirit of partnership, strive to promote the multipolarization of the world and the establishment of a new international order."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/HI29Ag01.html
______________________________________________________________

"Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants."

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092605a.cfm

[Vendome]

Forgot that one. Too damn funny.

[dr_lew]

I always thought Chernobyl had a lot do with it.

[Vendome]

So another part of the equation was our escalation in overthrowing governments in the Southern Hemisphere and combined with Sandinistas(Soviet funded) and the Contra’s(U.S. funded and supported. We lost 3,000 men in “training accidents”).

Our all out efforts resulted in 13 new democracies, sympathetic to the west, with our greatest success being Chile.

We left only one country under a fascist Red Star and I think that was due to an earlier agreement in the 60’s. Still, there some 8 million souls yearning for freedom on that concentration camp island known as Cuba.

All in all, when you look back at the 80’s you will see that Reagan put the pedal to the metal and the Soviets were obliged to keep up with us. However, their fuel tank wasn’t as large as ours and they were left in the dust we created as our economic engine took off hypersonically, creating more wealth per capita than any nation ever.

The soviets made only one thing of value and that was the poor man’s AR15, the AK47.

Bottom line: We are badazz innovative creators, we have Coca Cola, McDonald’s, Mom and Apple pie.

How were they ever going to compete with that?

Hell, we don’t bother going to war with most countries anymore. We just drop McDonalds and Diet Coke behind enemy lines and to finish them off we give them desire and envy of our culture.

Boom! Shaka-Laka-Boom!

[tired1]

I don’t think it was any one thing. Just too bad it took so long for it to happen. It would’t have lasted that long without western support but perhaps that’s a topic for another evening.

I got some new insights and perhaps by having all these posts together I can get a better understanding.

Thanks for all your posts.

[nathanbedford]

The fundamental, although not in the immediate, causes of the disintegration of the Soviet Union have much in common with the policies of Barack Obama.

First the country was governed by elites. Second, it was governed ostensibly according to an ideology which later degenerated into cronyism, paranoia, self-interest, and institutionalized corruption. Third, the reflexive adherence to an ideology meant that there was no self-correcting mechanisms available to correct policy mistakes and misallocation of resources, so problems simply got bigger and bigger and the lies bigger and bigger to cover them.

If one looks at the American democracy one sees that we often make mistakes, we often miss allocate resources-a phenomenon which we often call a "bubble"- but we have inherent corrective mechanisms which we see at work even as we ponder the destruction of the Soviet Union. America will go to the polls on November 2 and change course away from the destructive ideology of a Barack Obama which, if unchecked, would lead to the disintegration of the United States of America.

Our Constitution keeps alive the freedom to make corrections, it does not guarantee that we won't make mistakes.

[tired1]

Correct. My concern is that the US must extricate itself from a debt based currency, whose establishment by the Progressive moment parallels the formation of the Bolshevik state.

The currency problems leave the options of hyperinflation or default, perhaps both.

[nathanbedford]

Your concern is not at all misplaced. Please see the video at the link below, advance cursor until the presentation starts. By the way, take our heart pill before viewing.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10034228#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/americas-next-crisis-is-already-here/2764&medium=10034228

[kabumpo]

Because it was a feint to fool us What really.happened is that they won by pretending to lose.