Posted on 09/27/2010 1:27:31 PM PDT by RandysRight
This article gives another perspective on liberals, libertarians and conservatives. The history both Lincoln and Sherman has been written by the victors and beyond reproach. Do we want to restore honor in this country? Can we restore honor by bringing up subjects over 100 years old? Comments are encouraged.
Randy's Right aka Randy Dye NC Freedom
The American Lenin by L. Neil Smith lneil@lneilsmith.org
Its harder and harder these days to tell a liberal from a conservative given the former categorys increasingly blatant hostility toward the First Amendment, and the latters prissy new disdain for the Second Amendment but its still easy to tell a liberal from a libertarian.
Just ask about either Amendment.
If what you get back is a spirited defense of the ideas of this countrys Founding Fathers, what youve got is a libertarian. By shameful default, libertarians have become Americas last and only reliable stewards of the Bill of Rights.
But if and this usually seems a bit more difficult to most people youd like to know whether an individual is a libertarian or a conservative, ask about Abraham Lincoln.
Suppose a woman with plenty of personal faults herself, let that be stipulated desired to leave her husband: partly because he made a regular practice, in order to go out and get drunk, of stealing money she had earned herself by raising chickens or taking in laundry; and partly because hed already demonstrated a proclivity for domestic violence the first time shed complained about his stealing.
Now, when he stood in the doorway and beat her to a bloody pulp to keep her home, would we memorialize him as a hero? Or would we treat him like a dangerous lunatic who should be locked up, if for no other reason, then for trying to maintain the appearance of a relationship where there wasnt a relationship any more? What value, we would ask, does he find in continuing to possess her in an involuntary association, when her heart and mind had left him long ago?
History tells us that Lincoln was a politically ambitious lawyer who eagerly prostituted himself to northern industrialists who were unwilling to pay world prices for their raw materials and who, rather than practice real capitalism, enlisted brute government force sell to us at our price or pay a fine thatll put you out of business for dealing with uncooperative southern suppliers. Thats what a tariffs all about. In support of this noble principle, when southerners demonstrated what amounted to no more than token resistance, Lincoln permitted an internal war to begin that butchered more Americans than all of this countrys foreign wars before or afterward rolled into one.
Lincoln saw the introduction of total war on the American continent indiscriminate mass slaughter and destruction without regard to age, gender, or combat status of the victims and oversaw the systematic shelling and burning of entire cities for strategic and tactical purposes. For the same purposes, Lincoln declared, rather late in the war, that black slaves were now free in the south where he had no effective jurisdiction while declaring at the same time, somewhat more quietly but for the record nonetheless, that if maintaining slavery could have won his war for him, hed have done that, instead.
The fact is, Lincoln didnt abolish slavery at all, he nationalized it, imposing income taxation and military conscription upon what had been a free country before he took over income taxation and military conscription to which newly freed blacks soon found themselves subjected right alongside newly-enslaved whites. If the civil war was truly fought against slavery a dubious, politically correct assertion with no historical evidence to back it up then clearly, slavery won.
Lincoln brought secret police to America, along with the traditional midnight knock on the door, illegally suspending the Bill of Rights and, like the Latin America dictators he anticipated, disappearing thousands in the north whose only crime was that they disagreed with him. To finance his crimes against humanity, Lincoln allowed the printing of worthless paper money in unprecedented volumes, ultimately plunging America into a long, grim depression in the south, it lasted half a century he didnt have to live through, himself.
In the end, Lincoln didnt unite this country that cant be done by force he divided it along lines of an unspeakably ugly hatred and resentment that continue to exist almost a century and a half after they were drawn. If Lincoln could have been put on trial in Nuremburg for war crimes, hed have received the same sentence as the highest-ranking Nazis.
If libertarians ran things, theyd melt all the Lincoln pennies, shred all the Lincoln fives, take a wrecking ball to the Lincoln Memorial, and consider erecting monuments to John Wilkes Booth. Libertarians know Lincoln as the worst President America has ever had to suffer, with Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Lyndon Johnson running a distant second, third, and fourth.
Conservatives, on the other hand, adore Lincoln, publicly admire his methods, and revere him as the best President America ever had. One wonders: is this because theyd like to do, all over again, all of the things Lincoln did to the American people? Judging from their taste for executions as a substitute for individual self-defense, their penchant for putting people behind bars more than any other country in the world, per capita, no matter how poorly it works to reduce crime and the bitter distaste they display for Constitutional technicalities like the exclusionary rule, which are all that keep America from becoming the worlds largest banana republic, one is well-justified in wondering.
The troubling truth is that, more than anybody elses, Abraham Lincolns career resembles and foreshadows that of V.I. Lenin, who, with somewhat better technology at his disposal, slaughtered millions of innocents rather than mere hundreds of thousands to enforce an impossibly stupid idea which, in the end, like forced association, was proven by history to be a resounding failure. Abraham Lincoln was Americas Lenin, and when America has finally absorbed that painful but illuminating truth, it will finally have begun to recover from the War between the States.
Source: John Ainsworth
http://www.americasremedy.com/
Virginia, in their acceptance of the Constitution, made it explicitly clear that they withheld the right to withdraw from that Union...and here is the relevant phrase—”We the Delegates of the People of Virginia....declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the People of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will.” New York and Rhode Island also had clauses that allowed secession...Since all these states ratification of the Constitution was considered valid, then the clauses where they secured that right to secession was also valid—and due to the equal protection clause, what was valid for one state would also be equally valid for another.
Those signing statements were all very nice - but none of them hold the force of law superior to federal law.
“Yeah, Lincoln almost certainly would have pursued a lenient approach. Maybe Southerners shouldnt have blown his brains out, eh?”
Maybe. But since Johnson DID do it, and was impeached for the effort, it didn’t matter to the psych killers runnig reconstruction in the north ... by that point, they were so into killing and looting, they figured filling the South with carpet badgers was a GOOOOOOOOD idea. Turns out they were right, again. America is still paying for it.
Taught us ALL a thing or two, huh?
“It isnt enumerated in the Constitution as you well know.”
Well, let’s see, now. Not enumerated in the Constitution ... that means what? Something about rights ...
I know that those who argue about who was right and who was wrong have studied every minute of the war to come up with their defense. I have not, I find the whole episode disgraceful.
You can't pencil in your own reservations to a contract that the other parties have already signed and expect them to be regarded as valid. If you could, you could insert clauses that nullified the whole document you are signing.
The "equal protection clause" usual refers to the 14th Amendment which was only ratified after the Civil War. There was also the "privileges and immunities" clause of Article IV, but that doesn't really apply here either.
I agree. Isn’t it a great country that we can air our dirty laundry in public? ;-)
Non-seq, I do NOT have your encyclopedic knowledge of all things Civil War related, but I do hold more with DiLorenzo’s perspective, having read much of the supporting documentation. I do respect your position, but I do not share it, for the most part....and your finessing of my analogy was perfectly spot on.
Rights...or powers? Where ya headed?
*snip*
The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts.
For this you have every inducement of sympathy and interest. Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes.
But these considerations, however powerfully they address themselves to your sensibility, are greatly outweighed by those which apply more immediately to your interest. Here every portion of our country finds the most commanding motives for carefully guarding and preserving the union of the whole.
The North, in an unrestrained intercourse with the South, protected by the equal laws of a common government, finds in the productions of the latter great additional resources of maritime and commercial enterprise and precious materials of manufacturing industry. The South, in the same intercourse, benefiting by the agency of the North, sees its agriculture grow and its commerce expand. Turning partly into its own channels the seamen of the North, it finds its particular navigation invigorated; and, while it contributes, in different ways, to nourish and increase the general mass of the national navigation, it looks forward to the protection of a maritime strength, to which itself is unequally adapted. The East, in a like intercourse with the West, already finds, and in the progressive improvement of interior communications by land and water, will more and more find a valuable vent for the commodities which it brings from abroad, or manufactures at home. The West derives from the East supplies requisite to its growth and comfort, and, what is perhaps of still greater consequence, it must of necessity owe the secure enjoyment of indispensable outlets for its own productions to the weight, influence, and the future maritime strength of the Atlantic side of the Union, directed by an indissoluble community of interest as one nation. Any other tenure by which the West can hold this essential advantage, whether derived from its own separate strength, or from an apostate and unnatural connection with any foreign power, must be intrinsically precarious.
While, then, every part of our country thus feels an immediate and particular interest in union, all the parts combined cannot fail to find in the united mass of means and efforts greater strength, greater resource, proportionably greater security from external danger, a less frequent interruption of their peace by foreign nations; and, what is of inestimable value, they must derive from union an exemption from those broils and wars between themselves, which so frequently afflict neighboring countries not tied together by the same governments, which their own rival ships alone would be sufficient to produce, but which opposite foreign alliances, attachments, and intrigues would stimulate and embitter. Hence, likewise, they will avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty. In this sense it is that your union ought to be considered as a main prop of your liberty, and that the love of the one ought to endear to you the preservation of the other.
These considerations speak a persuasive language to every reflecting and virtuous mind, and exhibit the continuance of the Union as a primary object of patriotic desire. Is there a doubt whether a common government can embrace so large a sphere? Let experience solve it. To listen to mere speculation in such a case were criminal. We are authorized to hope that a proper organization of the whole with the auxiliary agency of governments for the respective subdivisions, will afford a happy issue to the experiment. It is well worth a fair and full experiment. With such powerful and obvious motives to union, affecting all parts of our country, while experience shall not have demonstrated its impracticability, there will always be reason to distrust the patriotism of those who in any quarter may endeavor to weaken its bands.
In contemplating the causes which may disturb our Union, it occurs as matter of serious concern that any ground should have been furnished for characterizing parties by geographical discriminations, Northern and Southern, Atlantic and Western; whence designing men may endeavor to excite a belief that there is a real difference of local interests and views. One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection. The inhabitants of our Western country have lately had a useful lesson on this head; they have seen, in the negotiation by the Executive, and in the unanimous ratification by the Senate, of the treaty with Spain, and in the universal satisfaction at that event, throughout the United States, a decisive proof how unfounded were the suspicions propagated among them of a policy in the General Government and in the Atlantic States unfriendly to their interests in regard to the Mississippi; they have been witnesses to the formation of two treaties, that with Great Britain, and that with Spain, which secure to them everything they could desire, in respect to our foreign relations, towards confirming their prosperity. Will it not be their wisdom to rely for the preservation of these advantages on the Union by which they were procured ? Will they not henceforth be deaf to those advisers, if such there are, who would sever them from their brethren and connect them with aliens?
To the efficacy and permanency of your Union, a government for the whole is indispensable. No alliance, however strict, between the parts can be an adequate substitute; they must inevitably experience the infractions and interruptions which all alliances in all times have experienced. Sensible of this momentous truth, you have improved upon your first essay, by the adoption of a constitution of government better calculated than your former for an intimate union, and for the efficacious management of your common concerns. This government, the offspring of our own choice, uninfluenced and unawed, adopted upon full investigation and mature deliberation, completely free in its principles, in the distribution of its powers, uniting security with energy, and containing within itself a provision for its own amendment, has a just claim to your confidence and your support. Respect for its authority, compliance with its laws, acquiescence in its measures, are duties enjoined by the fundamental maxims of true liberty. The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government.
All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.
However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.
Towards the preservation of your government, and the permanency of your present happy state, it is requisite, not only that you steadily discountenance irregular oppositions to its acknowledged authority, but also that you resist with care the spirit of innovation upon its principles, however specious the pretexts. One method of assault may be to effect, in the forms of the Constitution, alterations which will impair the energy of the system, and thus to undermine what cannot be directly overthrown. In all the changes to which you may be invited, remember that time and habit are at least as necessary to fix the true character of governments as of other human institutions; that experience is the surest standard by which to test the real tendency of the existing constitution of a country; that facility in changes, upon the credit of mere hypothesis and opinion, exposes to perpetual change, from the endless variety of hypothesis and opinion; and remember, especially, that for the efficient management of your common interests, in a country so extensive as ours, a government of as much vigor as is consistent with the perfect security of liberty is indispensable. Liberty itself will find in such a government, with powers properly distributed and adjusted, its surest guardian. It is, indeed, little else than a name, where the government is too feeble to withstand the enterprises of faction, to confine each member of the society within the limits prescribed by the laws, and to maintain all in the secure and tranquil enjoyment of the rights of person and property.
I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.
This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.
*snip*
George Washington, Farewell Address
There is no doubt that our government is a long way from what the Founders expected. But your blaming it all on Lincoln merely because he opposed the Southern rebellion is what's funny. As is your claim that the Founders would have necessarily supported the Southern secession. Madison, for one, would have found it illegal.
I've also read Tommy's works and found them all shallow and completely biased. He makes no pretense of honest scholarship or impartial judgment. And that makes his book worthless as a sole source for Lincoln and the rebellion. IMHO, of course.
And, as I posted above, George Washington spent a good portion of his final public communication warning against the sort of regional and party factionalism that would lead to the dissolution of the Republic.
“I know that those who argue about who was right and who was wrong have studied every minute of the war to come up with their defense. I have not, I find the whole episode disgraceful.”
I see it as tragic and unnecessary .. slavery was an inherited evil and as slavery fell around the world, so it would have here. Anyone who says it wouldn’t have is a damn liar, because no one knows what would have happened.
They point to the fight over the Territories as if that was going to make it a sure thing .. well, I know a shitload of people who made plans, got married and bought houses who were divorced a year later .. I’m pretty sure Obama nad Reid and Pelosi were making plans for their next reign over us and that Martha Coakley had already measured the drapes .. plans to do something doesn’t make it a done deal and killing a few hundred thousand people and destroying a country and its founding documents just wasn’t sensible .. it was just plain rash.
Slavery died everywhere, around the world, within a couple of decades, it would have died here.
This war was going to happen and there was no stopping it. Too bad. Damn shame. And once in and sure of how bloody it was, it could have been stopped.
It was more about blood lust than rights at that point.
Actually the relevant phrase is this: "We the said Delegates, in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, do by these presents assent to, and ratify the Constitution recommended on the seventeenth day of September, one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven, by the Federal Convention for the Government of the United States; hereby announcing to all those whom it may concern, that the said Constitution is binding upon the said People, according to an authentic copy hereto annexed..."
Which means that regardless of what else they said in their ratification document, they agreed to abide by and be bound by the Constitution itself. And if their act of secession was unconstitutional then it was also invalid.
My dirty laundry? My laundry, dirty or clean is what ‘I’ have done or left undone.
“Rights...or powers? Where ya headed?”
To the truth. I do respect your intelligence, even though we have had heated moments. You know where this is headed. There were rights or there weren’t.
Slavery would have collapsed given a chance .. it died all over the world within a few more decades without this slaughter. The product becomes useless, the industry dies, it is really that simple. Sorry it sounds cold blooded, but that is haow wars should be fought. And this one wasn’t.
Those ratification documents hold as much weight as the Constitution itself. It was a contractual agreement between the States. Yesirree, you Federal usurpers sold a bill of goods all right.
Ratification of the Constitution by the State of Rhode Island
In That there are certain natural rights, of which men when they form a social compact, cannot deprive or divest their posterity, among which are the enjoyment of Life and Liberty, with the means of acquiring, possessing and protecting Property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. 2d That all power is naturally vested in, and consequently derived from the People; that magistrates therefore are their trustees and agents, and at all times amenable to them. 3d That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people, whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness:-
Absolutely, the whole thing slavery, the war and reconstruction was shameful and disgraceful!
You may force me to admit there might be some Yankees of good character. I know living in Yankee/Rinoland is hell.....
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