No lad. You've got it backwards, er, upside-down.
Posted on 06/18/2010 5:25:32 PM PDT by Travis McGee
Okay, this wasn't a bench-by-bench comparison. But I did shoot one rifle last week at my range, and the other rifle today at a guest range. Both ranges are in Florida, if you care, on opposite coasts.
Both rifles were comparable M-4gerys. Top end or close to to top end. (Not junk.) Similar stocks, barrels, etc. I'm not going to mention the makes, because it's not the point of my essay tonight. Trust me, both are fine, fine rifles that are capable of greater accuracy than I ever will lend to them.
Okay. Rifle #1 sports a 1 power EOTech sight and a compensator/muzzle brake. The EOTech's 1X aiming point is a one minute of angle red dot, surrounded by a red circle. If you have read this far, you already know this.
Rifle #2 sports a 4X Trijicon ACOG and a flash suppressor. The ACOG's reticle is an orange triangle, the aiming point is the top tip. In both cases I was shooting from a bench and offhand at 100 yards at standard 100 yard NRA targets. These are about 2 feet square, with about a 10" black bullseye graduated with rings. I wasn't counting scores, but initial sighting-in groups, and then offhand effectiveness.
Impressions: the Trijicon is the finest sight I've ever shot on a combat carbine, period. Bar none. Better by far than my EOTech, Aimpoints (4 minute of angle red dots) and various other optical and electronic sights I have used. Off a rest, the Trijicon was shooting a sub 2" group, and I suck at bench rest shooting. I cannot get my EOTech to shoot that well, even though it has a 1 MOA red dot, mainly because my "over 50" eyes are starting to slip, maybe. The best bench groups I could get with the EOTech were about 4". The 4X Trijicon brought that 10" bull in sharp and clear. The triangle top reticle is like a surgeon's scalpel. Sub 2" bench groups were easy. Yet it's also bright and fast and "intuitive."
Bench rest verdict: Trijicon wins, hands down.
Standing, offhand. To get a little realism into the comparison, I shot identical NRA targets offhand, "semi-rapid fire." A combat carbine is about shooting with speed while running around and trying not to get shot. Bench rest performance is just step one. Standing offhand with both rifles/sights, I could really kill that 10" bull at 100 yards. The 1 MOA EOTech is easily centered. Offhand, both rifles and scopes were far better than the shooter, me. But to be truthful, semi-rapid fire standing, and going through entire 30 round mags to simulate realistic fatigue, I found it much easier to stay "all in the black" with the Trijicon. That 4X triangle is just so damn good. And it has built-in stadia steps under the triangle for 400 and 600 yards. I'd hate to be a Taliban with ten Marines chasing me with M-16 A3 mounted with Trijicons!
Offhand accuracy at 100 yards: Trijicon wins again.
Second discussion: flash suppressor vs. muzzle brake. One area where I must give credit to my own M-4gery with the EOTech is due to its brake/compensator. Yes, the 5.56mm "mouse gun" does not have much recoil. Yes, your ten year old little sister can shoot it without crying. BUT, my muzzle brake/compensator makes a fast rifle even faster. The Trijicon with the flash suppressor was more accurate, but just a bit slower than the EOTech with the brake. The Trijicon/flash suppressor would jump off of the target just enough between semi-rapid fire shots to force you to "re-acquire" the bull on the triangle.
But my EOTech with the compensator (no holes on the bottom, for zero "muzzle flip" means that my 1moa EOTech red dot stays dead-tits on the center of the bull between shots. If the ranges allowed true rapid fire, I'm sure that's when the brake would really shine. (No 'one second per shot rule'.) With the brake you can just nail your target all the way through a magazine, with both eyes open, never ever losing your point of aim even for a nanosecond.
But with no magnification, the EOTech just could not maximize the accuracy the way the Trijicon did.
My recommendation for the deadliest combo? Put a Trijicon on top of your M-4gery, and a muzzle brake/compensator on the front. Then you will be able to attack targets like a damn sewing machine! Who needs full auto, when you can just DRILL a target at 100 yards as fast as you can shoot?
I wish I was still out west at a "free range" gravel pit where I could put this theory to the test. But our Eastern RSO's just don't like hearing 30 round mags go out in under 30 seconds.
Now, everybody enjoy. I'm going out to dinner with my wife.
A lot depends on personal preference and what the rifle is being used for. For example, if it's not intended to hit anything past 100 meters (CQB, LEO applications etc.) speed is at a higher premium than accuracy, so a 4 MOA dot makes more sense. 1/4 inch one way or the other from center mass won't normally make much difference in a close-in suburban/urban environment.
Another thing I like about the Aimpoint is battery life. It doesn't get any better than 18,000 hours, as is the case with my Comp M3.
And the bayonet doubles as your tent stake and Kabob skewer ...
No lad. You've got it backwards, er, upside-down.
No, hadn’t heard of them. Just cheaper knockoffs or are they labeled Leupold?
Have you ever used an Armson OEG or a Singlepoint? Or a TriLux SUIT?
Do you know who is selling them so that I can avoid?
They seem to be internet sales, mostly. Probably e-Bay, etc. Wouldn’t hesitate to trust a big outfit like Cabela’s.
What about the little red button on the bottom of the gun?
Sounds like the Elcan C79 sight might be what you're after. The Canadians mount them on their C8 versions of the M4 carbine, and the USMC has been giving them a try on the M240 MG, since lesser units don't hold up well to such use on full-auto beltfeds.
I think the sight would still be usable after the sort of treatment you describe. The rifle might not, but I think the sight would still be in zero.
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Use the Force...It hasn’t failed me yet...;-)
Agree... Hope yer well Buddy !
That's a Magpul angle foregrip. For me, they work better than either a horizontal forearm, or a vertical gangsta' grip. I have them on just about any weapon that has a bottom rail.
I find the angle grip lets me adjust my hold more comfortably to accommodate my arthritis and carpal tunnel.
ahhh,so it's just an add on... thx as it looks like a more natural hand position
You mean a laser?
The Aimpoints, EOTechs and Trijicons have all passed military waterproof, dustproof and shockproof tests.
I haven’t seen an Armeson OEG in 20 years at least. Never heard of the Trilux.
Now I have to save my nickels and dimes. Might be a while. Sigh.
Also must find a decent mount for an StG 58 FAL.
I have a Zeiss Z-point on my M4gery. It’s small and light and has near-perfect co-witness with the iron sights on my raised-rib upper. My only beef is with the adjustments. It’s a little like adjusting a Volkswagen carburetor; there are no clicks. You have to use a hex key to adjust windage and elevation, and it’s not an easy process. But once you get it dialed in, it stays there. The Z-point automatically adjusts its dot brightness to the available light and it runs off sunlight when it’s available. After reading your review, I’d rather have a Trijicon. But money (is) a thang.
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