Posted on 02/12/2010 12:35:44 PM PST by syc1959
Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.
Immigration and Citizenship: Process and Policy fourth edition Under Jus Soli, the following is written "The Supreme Court's first holding on the sublect suggested that the court would give a restrictive reading to the phrase, potentially disqualifing significant number of persons born within the physical boundries of the nation. In Elk v. Wilkins 112 U.S. 94, 5 S.CT. 41, 28 L.ED. 643 (1884), the court ruled that native Indians were not U.S. citizens, even if they later severed their ties with their tribes. The words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," the court held, mean "not merely subjct in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiange." Most Indians could not meet the test. "Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian Tribes, (an alien through dependent power,) although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more 'born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'*** then the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government ***. Id. at 102. It continues that Congress eventually passed legislation with the 'Allotment Act of 1887, that conferred citizenship on many Indians.
The fact remains, the Court held, complete and sole Jurisdiction. As I have held that being born anywhere in the United States, jurisdiction is required, sole and complete, and Barack Hussein Obama was already claimed by British jurisdiction under the British Nationailty Act of 1948, and as such fails the United states Constitutional requirement of a Natural Born Citizen.
“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Barack Hussein Obama did not have sole jurisdiction under the United States.
Title 8 and the 14th Amendment clearlt state the following;
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof
Note: 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof'
Wow I always thought you were a guy. Just saying.
LOL!
I ask you to quote a Founding Father mentioning Blackhole and Article II Natural Born Citizenship in the same breath, and this is your answer? ROFLMAO!!!
Way to cop out there, Wiggles!
The honorable thing would have been to just admit that you can't do that. That would have been an honest gesture on your part, and I wouldn't have held it against you. But, you didn't do that because you know, as well as I, that it deflates your attempts to have others do the same with Vattel and the Founding Fathers.
"To get past the time travel problem you have to actually find the framers doing what no professional translator would do until ten years too late. I. e. making even the most tenuous connection between de Vattel and the phrase “natural born citizen.”"
Vattel DOES use the phrase "Natural Subjects." I found it in section XVII a few days ago and have been hiding that little trump card for just such an occasion as this.
Here's what I found in the original:
[...] Les fujets naturels d'un Prince lui font attachés [...]
Now, let me bring that up-to-date for you by getting rid of Ye Olde style of spelling:
[...] Les sujets naturels d'un Prince lui font attachés [...]
Now, let me translate it for you:
[...] The natural subjects of the Prince are attached to him [...]
Of course, that is MY OWN internal translation of that sentence as I was reading it.
So, I looked up all the English translations of Vattel that I could find, and ALL of them have translated that phrase to "natural subjects."
Ooops! There it is: The translation of "naturel" into "natural" and NOT "native!" Not only that, but with Vattel having now established the phrase "sujets naturels" (and, remember, it has ALWAYS been translated as "natural subjects" in English) prior to the section containing the phrase, "Les Naturels ou Indigènes," your argument over the meaning of this phrase is just pure speciousness.
Is that "tenuous" enough for you?
So, if you can fatuously claim that Blackhole's "natural born subjects" was THE source of the phrase "Natural-Born Citizen," without providing a single instance of a Founding Father uttering "Blackstone" and "Article II Natural Born Citizen" in the same breath, then I think we can just as easily claim that Vattel's "Natural Subjects" is also THE source which shaped Our Founding Fathers' understanding of "Natural Subjects." And, we can state it with even more confidence than you can!
Why do I say that? Because, when you weigh Vattel's phrase "Natural Subjects" with the preponderance of evidence in the history books and writings of Our Founding Fathers which make it quite clear that Vattel's work was among the most influential work used while drafting the the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, whereas, Blackhole's work took the backseat, then it is obvious to everyone, except you, that we have a stronger argument.
Of course, you are free to further amuse us all by continuing to flop around like a fish out of water while trying to bite everyone to death, my dear Black Knight. But, your act is getting stale.
Cheers
ROFLMAO!!! Too funny, my friend!
Cheers
Lol nope 40 yr old mom of 3 lol I am just hard headed stubborn is all..... ;)
Great Post!
Black Knight! LMAO...”Tis a flesh wound! Now fight me damnit!”
"Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake."
Actually Napoleon never said that.
“Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”
____________________________________________________________
You might find this post by “Beckwith” of interest, as follows:
re: “His Kenyan citizen lapsed when he turned 21...”
It did not.
The (factcheck) report is not accurate as to Obama’s historical British Subject status in that the implication exists that British subject status was lost along with British citizenship back in 1963.
The proof of this exists in the Kenyan Independence Act of 1963 (KIA) which states in Section 2(1):
2.(1) On and after the appointed day, the British Nationality Acts 1948 and 1958 shall have effect as if-
(a) in section 1(3) of the said Act of 1948 (which provides for persons to be British subjects or Commonwealth citizens by virtue of citizenship of certain countries) there were added at the end the words “ and Kenya “ ;
Now we must look at the British Nationality Act of 1948, Section 1:
1.-(1) Every person who under this Act is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or who under any enactment for the time being in force in any country mentioned in subsection (3) of this section is a citizen of that country shall by virtue of that citizenship have the status of a British subject.
(2) Any person having the status aforesaid may be known either as a British subject or as a Commonwealth citizen; and accordingly in this Act and in any other enactment or instrument whatever, whether passed or made before or after the commencement of this Act, the expression British subject and the expression Commonwealth citizen, shall have the same meaning.
(3) The following are the countries herein before referred to, that is to say, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Newfoundland, India, Pakistan, Southern Rhodesia and Ceylon.
According to the KIA, the words — and Kenya — are added to subsection (3) making all Kenyan citizens also British Subjects upon “the appointed day”, December 12, 1963.
First, Obama herein before could not have lost his Kenyan Citizenship on August 4, 1982. This means his foreign nationality issues were not only governed by the Kenyan Constitution, but — as of January 1, 1983 — he was also governed by the British Nationality Act of 1981.
AND SO OBAMA WAS A BRITISH COMMONWEALTH CITIZEN AFTER THE BNA OF 1981 took effect Jan 1 1983, AND SO HE STILL IS, since he was not only governed by KIA63.
The obfuscation tactic is to make it seem as if his citizenship vanished, but it did not. Obama is STILL a British Citizen.
117 posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 2:45:31 PM by Beckwith (A “natural born citizen” — two American citizen parents and born in the USA.)
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STE=Q
ROTFLMAO!!!
STE=Q
giggyFool was there, he would know. Look how accurate he’s been on Obama.
He believes in alternative reality - like Obama telling the truth, being legitimate, and so on, and on and on
So he makes things up.
Giggly - was your father a goat herder also?
The Constitution does not “cite” Blackstone either!
Blackstone is NOT the end all and be all of common law. One of the first and — throughout England's history — one of the most significant treatises of the common law, Bracton’s De Legibus et Consuetudinibus Angliae ("On the Laws and Customs of England"), which was heavily influenced by the division of the law in Justinian’s Institutes.
But the Declaration of Independence does recognize Natural Law. That would be Vattel, who heavily influenced French Ambassador Franklin. Franklin helped Jefferson by editing the drafts of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin was also the head delegate in the First "Committee of Eleven" that began drafting the Constitution in the summer of 1787.
Blackstone, in contrast, saw that Natural Law might be useful in determining the content of the common law and in deciding cases of equity, but was not itself identical with the laws of England.
Further, the Constitution does not cite the Ten Commandments or the Bible.
But as the majority of Framers feared their Christian God, there is no doubt that the influence of our Republic's laws from the Ten Commandments — and the Bible from which they came — is indelible on the Declaration of Independence that founded our nation:
Then in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
-snip-
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
| > The Constitution actually cites common law. It never sites de Vattel. The Constitution does not “cite” Blackstone either! Blackstone is NOT the end all and be all of common law. One of the first and — throughout England's history — one of the most significant treatises of the common law, Bracton’s De Legibus et Consuetudinibus Angliae ("On the Laws and Customs of England"), which was heavily influenced by the division of the law in Justinian’s Institutes. But the Declaration of Independence does recognize Natural Law. That would be Vattel, who heavily influenced French Ambassador Franklin. Franklin helped Jefferson by editing the drafts of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin was also the head delegate in the First "Committee of Eleven" that began drafting the Constitution in the summer of 1787. Blackstone, in contrast, saw that Natural Law might be useful in determining the content of the common law and in deciding cases of equity, but was not itself identical with the laws of England. Further, the Constitution does not cite the Ten Commandments or the Bible. But as the majority of Framers feared their Christian God, there is no doubt that the influence of our Republic's laws from the Ten Commandments — and the Bible from which they came — is indelible on the Declaration of Independence that founded our nation:
Then in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. -snip-
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. |
"Find us a single instance in that “mountain of documents” where a single one of those Founders or Framers quoted de Vattel on the issue of natural born citizenship.
Come on. Just one.
May 1779 8 years before the United States Constitution was adopted on September 17, 1787.Thomas Jefferson the principal author of the Declaration of Independence Declaring Who Shall Be Deemed Citizens of This Commonwealth.
Prior to the 14th amendment the controlling authority
of who was a citizen of the United States was the State.
Thomas Jefferson, A Bill Declaring Who Shall Be Deemed Citizens of This Commonwealth
May 1779Papers 2:476—78
Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all white persons born within the territory of this commonwealth and
all who have resided therein two years next before the passing of this act, and all who shall hereafter migrate
into the same; and shall before any court of record give satisfactory proof by their own oath or affirmation, that
they intend to reside therein, and moreover shall give assurance of fidelity to the commonwealth; and all infants
wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth, or
who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither
without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in
manner as herein after expressed: And all others not being citizens of any the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a4_2_1s4.html
WELL DONE DAVE!!!!
That is some beautiful research!
I understand how much reading and searching something like that takes!
THANK YOU!
This is the work of today’s Patriots!
Rediscovering what the Founders intended, and LEADING our Nation back to it!
This is the task we must accomplish!
EAGLES UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is GREAT!
The controling autority on who was a citizen before the
14th admendment was the state.
After the 14th admendment we have the prinicipal fraimer
John Bingham carring on what was known to the state and the
founders
stating:
I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill],
which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the
jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language
of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen… . . – John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866”
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=071/llcg071.db&recNum=2
>! you have to turn to page 1291 !>
Ditto .. kudos, Dave!
Now if we could only apply this to the anchor baby and illegal immigration situation.
From what I have read it would not take an constitutional
amendment, just congress to make a clarification in our
immigration laws.
They could use Vattel!
I am glad to hear that you have seen that B.C. in Israel, because that is more than we have seen here in the U.S!
However, secondarily the B.C. is of little value to be President!!
Primarily the NBC is the key. His father was a Kenyan/British citizen and by that Barry Soetoro became and still is a British/E.U. citizen. Additional his name indicates his is also an Indonesian citizen as well!!!
The black-out, (top right) and the black box at the bottom invalidates your pedigree!!!
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