[eeevil conservative]

Ping!

I hope this is useful, offers some insight and sparks some good dialogue....

I am open to any suggestions to make these threads more helpful if there is more I can do to make it better...

Thanks

ec

and as always- let me know if you want to be added to the ping list...best to FREEPmail me in case I miss any posts in the threads....

[jla]

Only my opinion but you would have made a better choice in juxtaposing Alinsky to Thomas Jefferson.

[ConjunctionJunction]

Just reading that makes me think about Russia and its problems with alcoholism, even while under communism.

[Brugmansian]

I submit he used Paine as some way to not just legitimize himself, but to portray him as noble in his own eyes as well to others.

Paine was a Jacobin. A real dirtbag. When Morris was trying to free Americans in France, Paine was over there working a deal with the revolutionary mob to steal Spanish property.

Alinsky used Paine because his target audience knows exactly how debased and evil Paine was.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Note that he combines country club membership, first class travel, and status, with a well-paid job, suburban home, automobile, and security; while labeling them all as materialistic.

Obama is violating that principle, with his lavish lifestyle. His recent vacation in Hawaii cost a fortune.

[ozark hilljilly]

...to have NOTHING that would interfere with what he wants from them. He wants them to have nothing to lose, so there is no action or deed with too big a price for them to take.

Interesting that folks like him and other "leaders" of that philosophy expects that of their followers, but refuse to be held to the same standard. They become the very ones they rail against.History has proved that time and time again.

Thanks for undertaking this project. I'll be checking back frequently!

[Gvl_M3]

Looks great so far.

Please add me to your ping list.

[leftyontheright]

bookmark

[The Shrew]

This is wonderful work. Thank you.

Please add me to your list.

Thanks,

TS

[Just mythoughts]

“Lest we forge at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgement to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom—Lucifer.”

The most in depth writing regarding who this first rebel is comes from two books of the Bible. Ezekiel 28:12-19 and Isaiah 14:12-32. Now I do realize that it will be considered politically incorrect to bring forth the Bible by some in this discussion, but without the foundation of knowing who Lucifer was at his creation and then why he rebelled, one cannot fully comprehend what Alinsky is 'preaching'.

Another book that gave to me a better comprehension about the minds of rulers after the rebellion has been successful was written by Whittaker Chambers, called Witness. Mr. Chambers sums up the world of that other way in the foreword in his book to his children. Following is a link to the foreword for those who have not read the book.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/hiss/chambersletter.html

[daisy mae for the usa]

Thank you. Already feeling more informed.

[Richard Kimball]

I'm creating an off site archive that links back to the original threads. As we add threads, this will allow interested Freepers to review the previous threads without making a huge post of links that takes up several feet of space. All that's on it now is this intro, but hopefully it will grow quite a bit over the next little while:

The Alinsky vs. Paine Archive.

Also, by linking off site, if someone stumbles upon an old thread, the link will always be up to date.

[goodnesswins]

please add me to the list...thanks

[gnickgnack2]

Interesting. Thoughtful. Inciteful.
You could never qualify to teach in public schools, could you? You are far above their pay grade.

Please add me to your list so I don’t miss a lesson.
Thanks

[Richard Kimball]

That's quite a stark contrast and very well drawn. Alinsky makes an appeal to Lucifer; Paine denounces the devil.

It's also a great point that Alinsky seeks to beggar his supporters. He appealed to a generation that had never felt the true want of hunger and homelessness by convincing them that there was something disdainful about having something to eat and somewhere to sleep.

I remember an episode of MASH where Alan Alda makes the same appeal, saying the American dream was to die of a coronary at your desk while planning to stab your boss in the back. Oddly enough, I knew a girl who was adopted as an orphan out of Korea, and she dealt with great guilt that she was living such an opulent life when she spent the first part of it living in an overhang without walls and eating food cooked over an open fire.

[call meVeronica]

bump for later

[geologist]

positive - negative
good bad
worker- parasite
producer destructor
build up - tear down

It positively eludes me how destruction of (self worth, dreams, hopes, enjoyment of family, survival of an civilized society) being committed to a worthy life ...

versus

To oppress, kill, demean, possess, control, lie, cheat, instill pain,steal, murder, dispossess, starve, ... are indeed all the work of Satan and ... how is it desirable?

It truly astounds me that this can sound and deliver anything to anyone that is worth dying to obtain.

It is ugly loathsome, a type of suicide.

[hondact200]

Paine desired for the redistribution of wealth. Similar to Alinsky that is why both his books Reveille for Radicals (1946) and Rules for Radicals (1971) are including Thomas Paine.

[hondact200]

the pamphlet that Thomas Paine Agrarian Justice was originally written in French and translated to english. The elitists in the day of Paine, Franklin, jefferson wrote in French the international language. The Agrarian Justice is available at the Social security Online History. just thought everyone would like to know that at the social security administration Thomas Paine is recognized the right of the disabled to receive health care. Please do keep in mind that Saul Alinsky is basing many of his premises about Community Organization that came out of European Intellectual Thought. He utilizes Alexis Toqueville Democracy in America. This thought came about by the French Intellectual Movement. Here is where we may see that Obamas education at the supposed Occidential, Columbia Universities may be actually fronts for his education in Paris through exchange programs. he could take classes abroad but still be considered at student at Occiedentail and Columbia. He could attend internationally at the prices he paid in the states or was paid by some one else. I remember the coursework I took in college on American and European Intellectual History and I had the opportunities to study abroad but never did. Please do not misunderstand I do not make myself out to be an intellectual, but in order to have studies in american and european history and many many the prerequisites for seminary in a state school allowed for the coursework in some rather mind blowing elitist attitudes. Interesting that much of Obama screams are coming from the intellectual movement that spread through Europe, In France shortly thereafter the French Revolution that entailed and many of these same intellectuals literally lost their heads on the guillotine. In the vaccuum Napoleon rose to power and it ended in disaster and Napoleon was exiled to the Island of Elba where he succumbed to aresnic poisoning, when his body was exhumed he was perfectly preserved like he died the day before being exhumed.

[gunnyg]

Alinsky’s RFR mentions that he was to begin with a sociologist.

Here’ a good, I think, article on sociology that may serve as am eye-opener.

http://gunnyg.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/and-just-where-did-sociology-come-from/