jehovahs witness

[annieup]

FIRST OF ALL THE WITNESSES ARE NOT A CULT. THAT OPINION WAS FORMED BY SOMEONE THAT OBVIOUSLY FEELS THREATNED BY THE TRUTH.IT AMAZES ME THAT WHENEVER A WITNESS DOES SOMETHING WRONG IT MAKES THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWS! IF A BABTIST OR PROTESTANT DOES SOMETHING WRONG IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR RELIGION. AND THIS BIG COVER UP GARBAGE IS A JOKE. ADMITTEDLY THEY ARE NOT PERFECT NOR CLAIM TO BE. MATT 24:9 SAYS THAT WE WOULD BE OBJECTS OF HATRED ON ACCOUNT OF HIS NAME. WHAT OTHER RELIGION IS HATED ON ACCOUNT OF HIS NAME? ONLY 1 THAT I CAN THINK OF THE WITNESSES PROUDLY GLORIFY JEHOVAHS NAME. ALSO WE ARE NOT PROGRAMMED. WE HAVE FREE WILL,GOD DOES NOT WANT ROBOTS, THAT IS WHY HE GAVE ADAM AND EVE FREE WILL. AND WE DO BELIEVE IN JESUS. HE IS GODS SON AND HE DID GIVE HIS LIFE FOR OUR SINS. I ALSO GET A KICK OUT OF THOSE WHO TELL US WHAT WE BELIEVE, ESPECIALLY IF IT ISN'T TRUE. PEOPLE JUST MAKE UP WHAT THEY WANT ABOUT THE WITNESSES AND THE NAIVE ONES BELIEVE IT. IF IT IS TRUE THEN LOOK INTO WHY WE BELIEVE WHAT WE DO. DONT JUST ASSUME TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT THEY TEACH OR BELLIEVE BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION. TALK ABOUT HAVING A MIND OF YOUR OWN!!

[NoGrayZone]

"Just wait..."

Oh please. You are nothing but hysterics and drama. I don't take anything you say seriously.

[NoGrayZone]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2412445/posts?page=461#461

Hehehe, thanks!

[FreedomOfExpression]

Egads, I think I responded to too many folks. I will try to respond as I have time.
John 1:1-3 - The King James Bible says that the word was God. However other translations render the verse as "a god" or "divine." A godlike spirit person.

John 20:28 - The above could have been the reason Jesus was addressed as "my God" by Thomas. Even the devil is called a god in the Bible, much more so God's son. Notice what was written in vs. 30 "But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God..." It doesn't say "believe that Jesus is God."

As for Phil 2:6-11, what is meant at verse 5, where we are told to have the same attitude as Christ? So do verses 6-11 say that we should consider ourselves equal to God then?
The Expositor's Greek Testament says: “We cannot find any passage where [har·pa′zo] or any of its derivatives [including har·pag·mon′] has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1967), edited by W. Robertson Nicoll, Vol. III, pp. 436, 437.
So he didn't consider seizing an equality with God, which is the example his followers should follow, humility. 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28 makes it clear that God himself is not subjected to Jesus, but the son will subject himself to the Father.

Hebrews 1:1-5 - I am not disputing that Jesus has a much higher position than angels. What part of this are you referring to? By the way, what translation are you using, so I can get some kind of reference here?

Romans 9:5 - Some translations show this as two distinct sentences or clauses.
1934 The Riverside New Testament, Boston and New York.
1935 A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt, New York and London.
1952 Revised Standard Version, New York.
1961 The New English Bible, Oxford and Cambridge.
1966 Today's English Version, American Bible Society, New York.
1970 The New American Bible, New York and London.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology states: “Rom. 9:5 is disputed. . . . It would be easy, and linguistically perfectly possible to refer the expression to Christ. The verse would then read, ‘Christ who is God over all, blessed for ever. Amen.’ Even so, Christ would not be equated absolutely with God, but only described as a being of divine nature, for the word theos has no article. . . . The much more probable explanation is that the statement is a doxology directed to God.”—(Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1976), translated from German, Vol. 2, p. 80.

2 Peter 1:1 - There is no problem distinguishing God and Christ as two individuals because of this verse. Matthew 21:12 uses the same construction when speaking of Jesus casting out those "selling and buying."
Were the same persons buying and selling? These were two distinct groups mentioned here.

Also is the issue about the Holy Spirit being co-equal and co-eternal.

I do not have sufficient tome to make a full reply. It takes much longer to discuss the scriptures as I have done, than simply writing a list of scriptures. I know I asked the question, but I am explaining why it has taken me a lot of time to reply. (Besides having other things that need tending to).

[NoGrayZone]

"JWs believe that? (Yes) "

Wrong...hence the false witness.

"This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael...the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role."

I don't know if you are purposefully leaving scripture out to suit your own needs, but lets take a look at what the Bible states PRIOR to your little "quote"....

Mt 13:36-42...... Then after dismissing the crowds he went into the house. And his disciples came to him and said:"Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field". In response he said: "The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world, as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things and the reapers are angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with the fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, and will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where (their) weeping and the gnashing of (their) teeth will be.

Where on EARTH do you come up with Michael the Arch Angel out of that????

[NoGrayZone]

What bizarre beliefs??? You have yet to name 1!!!!

[FreedomOfExpression]

The verses at Matthew 26:63-66 say that Christ is the son of God, or sitting at God's right hand (a favored position) not that he was a part of a Godhead, co-equal and co-eternal. Basically, I was asking where does the Bible say that Christ is the same person as God, part of a trinity.

That he is in heaven in a superior position to the angels is not disputed.

[NoGrayZone]

"It is not about any other topic. Good try."

Wrong again. This thread may have been started by a witness, but it has evolved into much more than that.

[AmericanArchConservative]

My point stands

Your knowledge of Biblical hermeneutics does not.

A.A.C.

[NoGrayZone]

Alrighty then! You speak, the earth stops...got it.

[ejonesie22]

I take that back, the are equally as fun.

[Tennessee Nana]

the witnesses do believe that jesus is gods son, and i believe that way also. we do not believe that jesus and god are the same person.
____________________________________________________

Maybe so for the lower case letter jesus...

But the Jesus of the Christian Bible is God...

Jesus is the “In the beginning God” ..Genesis 1:1

He is the Word of God...

The second person of the Trinity...

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost...

The Holy Three-in-One...

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

John the beloved disciple testified that Jesus was God...

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.

Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.

Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.

Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]. John 1:1-18

[ejonesie22]

I am curious, you speak of having Bible studies with Jehovah’s Witnesses, but you do not indicate your own affiliation that I have seen.

By saying you “had” Bible studies I would take it you are not JW, but you seem to hold some of the same beliefs.

So perhaps a mention of your own affiliation would be in order.

[Tennessee Nana]

When the JWs used to knock on my door once a month for years, regardless of my telling them I was not interested...

One of them told me she had claimed me as her slave in the JW afterlife, because I refused to be “converted”...

If that is not a cult and controlling, I dont know what is...

Plus not believing that Jesus is God come in the flesh ???

CULT..

[ejonesie22]

They are actually more “cultish” than the LDS. If such a thing is possible.

[ejonesie22]

They are actually more “cultish” than the LDS. If such a thing is possible.

[Tennessee Nana]

Mt 10:32 “Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens.”....
_____________________________________________

Interesting...

That version is not among the usual Christian versions

Matthew 10:32

New International Version (©1984)
“Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.

New Living Translation (©2007)
“Everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

International Standard Version (©2008)
“Therefore, everyone who acknowledges me before people I, too, will acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
“So I will acknowledge in front of my Father in heaven that person who acknowledges me in front of others.

King James Bible
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

American King James Version
Whoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

American Standard Version
Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven.

Bible in Basic English
To everyone, then, who gives witness to me before men, I will give witness before my Father in heaven.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven.

Darby Bible Translation
Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, I also will confess him before my Father who is in the heavens.

English Revised Version
Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father which is in heaven.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Whoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven.

Weymouth New Testament
“Every man who acknowledges me before men I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in Heaven.

World English Bible
Everyone therefore who confesses me before men, him I will also confess before my Father who is in heaven.

Young’s Literal Translation
‘Every one, therefore, who shall confess in me before men, I also will confess in him before my Father who is in the heavens;

Geneva Study Bible
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

[Tennessee Nana]

Thanks AMPU for the info...

[DJ MacWoW]

Charles Taze Russell started the JW’s. He was hauled into court for selling “miracle” wheat. He also claimed to be able to read Greek but couldn’t do so on the stand. You need to check it out or yourself.

[Tennessee Nana]

Gollies...

All the versions of the Christian Bible say that the Word was God...

Whatever the JWs are reading, it is not the Christian Bible...

Jesus is God...always has been always will be...

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today, and forever .. Hebrews 13:8

John 1:1

New International Version (©1984)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New Living Translation (©2007)
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Bible in Basic English
From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Webster’s Bible Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Weymouth New Testament
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

World English Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Young’s Literal Translation
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

Geneva Study Bible
In {1} the {a} beginning {b} was {c} the Word, and the Word was {d} with God, and the {e} Word was God.

[Diamond]

I must admit, I do not know who this person is. I never learned of him in any of my Bible studies. I will look into it though. I'm assuming from your post he has to do with Jehovah Witnesses?

The fact that you know next to nothing about the actual history of the organization to which you apparently belong (or belonged?) speaks volumes about the organization itself and your own credulity concerning it.

You mention your "Bible studies". You didn't really study the Bible; you studied Watchtower literature. If you are a member of the Watchtower Society in the final analysis it really doesn't matter what the Bible actually teaches about anything, the final authority for you is the what the Watchtower organization says the Bible says. Yet, if you ever actually sat down and starting reading the Bible for yourself (in any translation produced by people with actual knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, (unlike Frederick Franz who had no training in Hebrew and a grand total of two credit hours of Koine Greek in an entry-level course, according to his transcript) you might be surprised at what you find out. If you still are involved with them your fear at the idea of doing just should be a sign to you that the Watchtower hierarchy who claim exclusivity as God's organization and who nutrure that fear in you are the same ones who prefer that you remain in the dark about the history of the Watchtower organization, its vacillating doctrines, falsified predictions, and outright lies under oath of some of its early leaders. That should tell you something about them, but I doubt it will.

I don't doubt your sincerity but you have been seriously deceived.

Cordially,