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How Liberalism and Libertarianism Destroyed Liberty
The Bitpig Rant ^ | 2009.11.10 | Bitpig (B-Chan)

Posted on 11/10/2009 11:55:00 AM PST by B-Chan

The passage of sweeping national health care legislation by the U.S. House of Representatives has set the stage for the greatest intrusion of the State into the everyday lives of the American people in the nation's history. Across the Web, the groans and cries of the free-marketers, capitalists, and libertarians have begun to echo in response. Surprisingly, many of these voices condemn the Catholic Church for its "socialist" commitment to feeding the poor, caring for the sick, and doing the other things Jesus Christ commanded of us. "Without the support of you bleeding-heart Catholics," the refrain goes, "this socialist nightmare could never have passed."

An element of truth exists behind this complaint. A pious Catholic's heart does bleed for the sick, the aged, the destitute, the lame, and the suffering; in this, it mimics the Sacred Heart of our Lord Himself, who gave all He had, including His life, for the sake of the suffering.

But is the Catholic Church "socialist"? Impossible. Socialism is a materialist doctrine with a dialectical and teleological basis that is utterly incompatible with the word and example or our Lord. As such, it has been repudiated specifically in the teaching of the Church, most notably in the encyclical Rerum novarum (1891) of Pope Leo XIII, which states

the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonweal. The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property.1
But if the Church is not socialist, neither is it capitalist. Capitalism, like socialism, is both philosophically materialist and ethically libertarian -- and libertarian thought (which is just Liberal thought with a different name) is completely in opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ. Our Lord is not a free marketer, a capitalist, an entrepreneur, or a salesman. As the ultimate altruist and counter-example of rational sef-interest, He stands at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from Rand's Nietzschean superman John Galt. Jesus Christ is a King, not a CEO*, and He commands His servant Church to uphold the Natural Law, which proclaims that every human being is a Child of God -- and as such, is deserving of food, medical care, and the other basic hallmarks of human dignity.

The Church is called upon to provide these social services. The State has no just role in pubic life except to keep the peace, protect the borders, establish justice, and preserve the national patrimony. In a Christian social order, the State officially recognizes the Church's special role in the life of the nation, and protects and support the Church in its provision of social services. This was the pattern of social organization throughout Christendom until the advent of the Lutheran heresy, which proclaimed the cult of individual Liberty and its separation of Church and State.

By destroying the proper relationship between Church and State, the "libertarian" movement invited the State to overstep its ordained bounds and intrude into areas of life within which it has no just business. In a post-Reformation representative republic such as our own, which pretends neutrality in matters of faith, the State cannot fulfill the role of Protector of the Church given to it by God; as a result, over time, popular demand forces the State to assume the provision of social services which in a Christian social order would be provided by the Church.

Human beings have the positive and Divine right to daily bread, health care, and other aspects of human dignity. In his Luciferian quest for individual Liberty, however, Western man has destroyed the Divinely-ordained social order under which the Church provided these goods. As a result, the heavy hand of the State will now intrude into every aspect of public life in its futile attempt to build a just society. Ironically, the worship of individual liberty instigated by the "reformers" of the Church and the secular counterparts of the "enlightenment" has destroyed the liberty under God that individuals once enjoyed as organic parts of the Catholic and medieval social order.

Nationalized health care is a fact. Soon, the power of life and death will rest entirely in the hands of the State. And as the smothering blanket of socialism settles slowly across our land, I invite libertarians to quit their whining. In their quest for freedom from the Church, they destroyed the institutions that kept the State in its proper place. Libertarians made this bed; we are now all going to be forced to sleep in it.

*That was L. Ron Hubbard's gig.


TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: catholic; church; liberalism; pogroms; serfdom; socialism; state
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To: B-Chan; Dr. Eckleburg
So you want to see a Catholic monarchy and all those who do not convert will have their heads chopped off. Lovely. However, you may have failed to take into consideration that the rest of us may not want our little heads chopped off, then what?

Then you make the statement that all men are the children of God. Well that is contrary to what the bible teaches, number one, and number two, why are you advocating chopping off God's childrens' heads if that were true, or even if you believe it to be true?

We've had the Catholic Church in charge of schools, orphanages,and little children in the past, and are only now realizing the depths of depravity, abuse and psychological damage that was inflicted on these innocents, and now you advocate a return to that system.

This is a very theologically muddled opinion piece, not fit for Free Republic.

241 posted on 11/12/2009 1:10:16 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings
So you want to see a Catholic monarchy

Yes, someday, somewhere.

...and all those who do not convert will have their heads chopped off.

Huh? I never said that. I'm against killing anyone except in defense of self, innocents, or nation. And converting people by force isn't on my agenda either.

If you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I'm in favor of Catholic monarchy, but that I'm against doing anything to create one. Politics are a sucker's game. Instead of trying to overthrow the existing world order (which is something Christians are forbidden to do anyway), we monarchists need only bide our time. The inevitable collapse of the current world political and economic system will lead to a period of anarchy, out of which will rise a system of ethnic tribal warlords, among which some will be Catholic. These Catholic warlords will in time become kings.

242 posted on 11/12/2009 1:26:35 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
If you read what I wrote again, you'll see that I'm in favor of Catholic monarchy, but that I'm against doing anything to create one. Politics are a sucker's game. Instead of trying to overthrow the existing world order (which is something Christians are forbidden to do anyway), we monarchists need only bide our time. The inevitable collapse of the current world political and economic system will lead to a period of anarchy, out of which will rise a system of ethnic tribal warlords, among which some will be Catholic. These Catholic warlords will in time become kings.

What if the Heavenly Father has a different plan?

243 posted on 11/12/2009 1:28:40 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
Deus vult!
244 posted on 11/12/2009 1:30:04 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
Deus vult!

I can't find a reenactment 'second' crusade foretold in our future. The next 'crusade' is going to be led by Christ Himself when He returns with that double edged sword for a harvest.

Course there is to be an appearance of a very short lived 'crusade' that all but the 'elect' will believe is the real thing.

245 posted on 11/12/2009 1:54:53 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Poe White Trash
“”I believe you are mistaken. From what I've read, Edgar Mortara entered the Augustinian, not the Franciscan, order.””

Thank you for correcting this ,dear PWT.I appreciate the respectful manner in how you have conducted yourself in this debate

It would do you well to read the testimony of Edgar Mortara himself from the Beautification process of Pius IX

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pope025501.htm

Excerpt
§1656: The parents made a great effort to have their child again.

Edgar Mortara response-Eight days later, my parents presented themselves to the Institute of Neophytes to initiate the complex procedures to get me back in the family. As they had complete freedom to see me and talk with me, they remained in Rome for a month, coming every day to visit me. Needless to say, they tried every means to get me back — caresses, tears, pleas and promises. Despite all this, I never showed the slightest desire to return to my family, a fact which I do not understand myself, except by looking at the power of supernatural grace.

At this point, I will tell a story that shows the power of this grace. After serving Mass in Alatri for Canon Vincenzo Sarra (in whose home I was staying), upon returning to the sacristry with the priest, my parents suddenly appeared at the door. Instead of throwing myself in their arms, as would have been natural, I retreated, quite surprised, hiding under the priest's chasuble. Because of this event, the people of Alatri were incensed at my parents, and the bishop thought it best to host me in his palace for eight days and also to avoid abduction by my parents. They became convinced of the uselessness of their efforts and thought it more prudent to return to Bologna.

Here is another good account of this
http://www.secondexodus.com/html/jewishcatholicdialogue/mortara.htm

I wish you a blessed day!

246 posted on 11/12/2009 5:53:06 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: B-Chan
I don't believe in 18th Century Classical Liberalism

Then why are you trolling a site explicitly dedicated to it?

247 posted on 11/12/2009 5:54:41 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: All

Behold the whore of the Reformation.


248 posted on 11/12/2009 6:02:09 AM PST by rbmillerjr (It's us against them...the Establishment RINOs vs rank and file...Sarah Palin or bust)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

As usual,dear sister,you have little understanding of Catholicism and GK Chesterton due to being blinded by disdain of the Catholic Church

The majority of true conservatives applaud Chesterton,even Ronald Reagan used to quote him because HE WAS AGAINST BIG GOVERNMENT AND BIG CORPORATIONS

More from GK Chesterton...

“A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that the fine is generally much lighter,” and “Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few capitalists.”

“If capitalism means private property, I am capitalist. If capitalism means capital, everybody is capitalist. But if capitalism means this particular condition of capital, only paid out to the mass in the form of wages, then it does mean something, even if it ought to mean something else.

“The truth is that what we call Capitalism ought to be called Proletarianism. The point of it is not that some people have capital, but that most people only have wages because they do not have capital.”


249 posted on 11/12/2009 6:26:25 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
It would do you well to read the testimony of Edgar Mortara himself from the Beautification process of Pius IX

Mortara's words (from your excerpt) look like the attempt by someone, much later in life, to come to terms with their early past. Does his testimony reveal the workings of God's grace, or is it an attempt to make sense of faint memories from almost 50 years in his past? Who in this veil of tears can know with certainty?

However, in his recounting Mortara fails to acknowledge the fact that, after being kidnapped he was not returned to his parents due to the obstinancy of Pius IX, who could have returned little Edgar to his parents if he had willed it, and not due to his sudden and unexplainable reticence around his mother and father. That's quite a mis-remembering of events!

Thus, I don't think it probable that God's Grace was operative here in any significant sense: merely the wills of men who saw fit to use the vagaries of canon law and their own power to grab a child from his parents. Parents whose only "offense," as far as I can see, is that they were Jews who had not the wherewithall to save their child from the wolves who had snatched little Edgar from their home.

Once again, I ask you to respond to my question about your seeming reliance upon an "ends justifies the means" morality to justify Pius IX's command to kidnap 6-year-old Edgar. A defense which seems to go against the grain of what I took to be RC moral teaching. Why the silence?

Why the continued defense of those who denied relief to "him that hath no helper"?

250 posted on 11/12/2009 7:27:45 AM PST by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: rbmillerjr
Behold the whore of the Reformation.

"Troubled teen" is more like it.

251 posted on 11/12/2009 7:35:02 AM PST by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: Poe White Trash
I don't think it probable that God's Grace was operative here

Edgar Mortara obviously disagrees with you and so do I,dear friend

You psychoanalyze it all you want,God's ways are not always our ways.

Thanks for the conversation

252 posted on 11/12/2009 8:25:40 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: steve-b
Because this site is supposed to be dedicated to conservative thought. Unfortunately it is infested with Liberals who only think they are conservative. It is my duty to attempt to educate my fellow Freepers on what Conservatism actually is.

You're a '98er, as I am. Surely you have noticed as this site has gone from being a public relations front for the GOP and Limbaugh Liberalism to being a place where true Conservative ideas can be discussed. Progress is being made! Every day, more and more Freepers are being liberated from the smothering grasp of the Two-Party Illusion and are becoming able to see the true nature of the conflict in which we are engaged. Are you suggesting we go back to shilling for the Bush family and Wall Street?

Tough times are coming! If Leftist, secular tyranny is to be defeated, we must have a cadre of dedicated traditional Conservatives to educate their friends and neighbors. I see my own small efforts to combat the fake conservatism of the Republican/Big Business axis of evil as a tool to help create that cadre. Why don't you help me instead of continuing to cast your support for the CINOs and corporate pirates who have deceived the American people for so long? Why not push for real Conservatism instead of promoting the ideas of the humanistic Enlightenment that have brought us to the sorry state we inhabit today?

253 posted on 11/12/2009 10:08:03 AM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan; Dr. Eckleburg
Your pope is sniffing about Jerusalem for a world throne, someone's going to get it, let's hope it's him.

No King but Jesus!

254 posted on 11/12/2009 10:45:11 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: stfassisi
Edgar Mortara obviously disagrees with you and so do I,dear friend

The words you quoted from Montara's statement do not address the questions I have been asking. Not obvious at all.

You psychoanalyze it all you want,God's ways are not always our ways.

No psychoanalsis on my part, just criticism of your quote based upon relevant facts that Mortara left out.

God's ways are God's ways. The ways of the Holy Office are the ways of the Holy Office. What significant connection there may exist between the two is open to debate. Once again, I find it surprising that you believe that forced baptism and kidnapping are part of God's way. What next -- Murder? Deceit? Pogroms? If the end justifies the means, what becomes to our adherence to God's Law? It seems as if you are more concerned to express obedience to the Holy See than to follow the Decalogue or the Gospels.

Thanks for the conversation

Not much of a conversation!

You haven't answered my questions.

Nor have you come to terms with what happened to Edgar Mortara when he was 6 years old, nor the wretched treatment visited upon his parents by the RC community both at the time of his abduction and later.

255 posted on 11/12/2009 10:46:22 AM PST by Poe White Trash (Wake up!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Petronski

It is obviously a dispute I do not understand.

Sorry to interject.


256 posted on 11/12/2009 11:10:38 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: B-Chan
Why don't you help me

Because I took an oath to uphold the Republic and its Constitution, have never been released therefrom, and take it seriously. Do not offend me again by implying that breaking my oath is even an option.

257 posted on 11/12/2009 11:17:56 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
No one cares what Chesterton had to say about anything.

Speak for yourself.

258 posted on 11/12/2009 11:20:03 AM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Poe White Trash
However, in his recounting Mortara fails to acknowledge the fact that, after being kidnapped he was not returned to his parents due to the obstinancy of Pius IX, who could have returned little Edgar to his parents if he had willed it, and not due to his sudden and unexplainable reticence around his mother and father.

One wonders how Pius defended himself when he found himself before the throne of Christ, having kidnapped Him ("As You Have Done Unto the Least of These, You Have Done Unto Me.")

259 posted on 11/12/2009 11:21:19 AM PST by steve-b (Intelligent Design -- "A Wizard Did It")
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To: Jewbacca
Your interjections make more sense than some of these posts.

There's no "dispute," really.

Capital "C" = Roman Catholic church.

Small "c" = universal, such as the universal Christian faith.

The problem lately is that certain RCs on this forum simply want to call themselves "Catholic."

I don't care what they want to call themselves. It's just one more error in a big pile of errors.

260 posted on 11/12/2009 11:23:29 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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