Obama's eligibility issue: Why the British Citizenship argument is a red herring

The Greater Evil ^ | 06/27/09 | Polarik

[Polarik]

In a recent press conference, Les Kinsolving of World Net Daily finally got to ask the question that we've all wanted to ask Obama, "Why won't you show us your real birth certificate?" Press Secretary Gibbs response was startling. He said that the Obama Administration had put a copy of it, one with a raised Seal, on the Internet. That response, more than any other mentioned to date, should have gotten people to their feet shouting, "NO, it's NOT a real birth certificate!" Or, at least, it's not the long-form original.

In effect, Obama, by way of his Press Secretary, just admitted to committing felony document fraud as what is posted on the Internet is a forgery, a false government identification document in violation of Federal statutes.

However, there is another school of thought, a group most notably headed by Leo Donofrio, who, upon hearing that question and Gibbs' reply, would have gotten to their feet shouting, "NO, it's Obama's British Citizenship, stupid! To Hell with the birth certificate." According to Donofrio, the fact that Obama committed felony document fraud is not only irrelevant, but is "–without a doubt - a conspiracy theory of epic proportions.

"Nobody can deny that it’s a textbook conspiracy theory. Regardless of whether he has a genuine long form BC saying he was born in Hawaii, the concept that the COLB is a forgery would certainly concern a vast conspiracy to defraud the American people. Conspiracies do exist, but they have a very bad reputation and the media can spin them as kookery with ease."

After pursuing the document fraud arument for over a year, I have encountered many people who, at first glance, seem to be earnest-sounding individuals who also believe that Obama should not have been elected President. Ar first, they appear to be on the same side as the "Birthers," but, unlike those who want to see Obama's real, original birth certificate, they go out of their way to do everything in their poweer to dissuade anyone from wanting to see Obama's real, original birth certificate. If I've seen it once, I've seen it a thousand times. There is no other issue that bothers them more than the prospect of Obama having to release his actual birth certificate.

And, when yhey reach the point where it seems like the push to see it is actually gaining traction, they come out even harder than before, mercilessly cracking on Birthers as fools and wingnuts, which is exactly what Obama trolls have done for over a year now.

I submit to you, and I have the experience to make this statement, that Obama and his Campaign did not, by accident, admit that, when Obama was born, his father, Obama Sr., was a British citizen. NO way, Jose. Almost everything that Obama and his minions have done to date, has been deliberate and planned. That tidbit in Factcheck about his father's citizenship was not an "Oops" at all. It was a big, fat, smelly red herring, and the people who are pushing the British Citizenship argument to the exclusion of all other arguments -- particularly, the fake COLB -- are blowing smoke up your tailpipe.

Mr. Donofrio's lastest skreed is about Kinsolving's question and how "WND dropped the balla" with respect to Donofrio's pet theory. Leo insists that Kinsolving should have asked Gibbs the following question:

"During the election, then Senator Obama published a statement at his website which said that his birth status was “governed” by the British Nationality Act of 1948. Can you please tell the American people how a natural born citizen of the United States can be governed – at birth – by British law?"

OK, for the last time, I'm going to break this issue down, as I see it for what it really is, so that everyone clearly understands the implications of pursuing the British citizenship route to challenging the "natural-born status" of Barack Obama, to the exclusion of all other actions taken.

To begin with, Leo Donofrio argues that what is on Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant and that even hinting that the Internet COLB is bogus is a stupid conspiracy theory. According to the British citizen strategy, Obama admitted he was a dual citizen at birth and that eligibility advocates have simply questioned whether that makes him ineligible to be President under Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution.

Stop right here. Do not go any further until I reread these previous declarations:

Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant.

Obama admits he was a British citizen at birth.

Eligibility advocates SIMPLY questioned if he is Constitutionally eligible to be President.

In other words, this is tantamiunt to saying it's an academic exercize in Constituional Law. Removing OBama from office is not the isue at all. Donofrio has made that point clear. It's all about setting a legal precident for a centuries-old Constitutional question that has been sideskirted by every court since.

OK, O'll go along for the ride.

let's say the judge rules that the Framers of the Constitution intended Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution to exclude dual citizenship. Does this mean that Obama knew he was ineligible? What Obama knew or did not know is irrelevant. The definition of NBC as it applied to dual citizenship at birth was never made. The precident did not exist. No harm. No foul.

Now what? There is no precident for what happens next. Does everything revert back to a previous date? What date?

None of the above. You know that the ruling will be appealed refardless of which way it goes. If it goes against the Plaintiff, you are not going to get it overturned by SCOTUS. You many not even get a hearing on it.

By the time it would go to SCOTUS, there's a better than even chance that Sotomayer will be sitting on the bench. You already know which way she's going to vote.

OK, I'll play along here and imagine what happens if it is upheld? What would SCOTUS do? They will say that Congress should have raised this issue during the cerification of the Electoral Count. The Court will then say it does not have the power to remove a sitting President - only Congress does. Then what? Obama sits on the sidelines and let Biden run things while Congress figures out what to do next?

Notic that the question of divided loyalties hasn't come up once in this discussion. Remember, THAT was the sole purpose of making someone who was born with dual citizenship ineligible to be President! If Obama had British citizenship at birth, he didn't have to swear allegiance to the Queen. Does it even make sense to talk about loyalties for a newborn, or now as an adult in already serving as President.

It does where Obama is concerned.

It should now come as no surprise to anyone that Obama has more loyalties to our enemies than he does to our allies. Obama has more loyalties to the Middle Eastern World than to the Western World. Obama has more loyalties to Dar al-Islam than to Dar al-Harb. Obama has more loyalties to his foreign investors than to his domestic supporters.

Yet what seemed like a big Constitutional crisis at first now seems to have fizzled out. Now, through all of these mashinations Obama gets a pass on ever having to show where he was born, when he was born, and to whom he was born.

What if Obama is actually the son of someone else? What if his father was born to Malcolm X or Frank Marshall Davis, as some theorize? Too bad, because you will never know that without seeing Obama's original birth certificate.

So, let's recap. Here are the two tenets of the British Citizenship makes Obama ineligible argument:

Obama's original birth certificate is irrelevant.

Obama admitted he was a British citizen at birth.

Obama is, therefore, a natual-born British citizen and is Constitutionally ineligible according to Article 2 Section 1.

Right?

WRONG!

If this court case should actually make it as far as the Supreme Court, and if it looks like he is going to lose the case, Obama will make a startling announcement!

Obama announces that the reason why he was withholding his original birth certificate is because he didn't want anyone to know that his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, and his father, Barack Hussein Obama Sr., WERE NEVER MARRIED!!!!

Game over, Donofrio!

Prior to 1983, British nationality was transmitted from the father through one generation only, and ONLY if the parents were married in accordance with English Law.

In other words, folks, Obama was not a British citizen at birth. Obama might have been born with no citizenship at all if he was born in Kenya. and not Hawaii.

However, since the people who are pushing this strategy so hard, to the exclusion of evey other strategy, have said that his birth certificate is irrelevant and would make no effort to obtain it, Obama walks, free and clear.

Oh, I'm sure that he'll get tons of sympathy from the vast majority (if not all) of his fan base because they don't believe that marriage is even necessary to have a child.

This is the reason why we must continue to push Obama to release, not only his long-form "vault" certificate, but also the very same Certification of Live Birth that he had claimed to have made and posted on the Internet.

[taxtruth]

As soon as the whitehouse can convince some state in America to print one up.Maybe a state needs a little money from uncle sammy otherwise known as “CONARTIST”.

[LucyT]

bHo’s birth certificate was posted for sale on eBay last night.

eBay Auction #160345002984

Check out the recent items the Seller Bought ...

a book on Hit Men (a How-To Manual)

a book on Africa

several items of paper money (pesos)

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=colmado_naranja&ftab=AllFeedback

[taxtruth]

Very interesting.I'm going thru all the auctions now.

[taxtruth]

It seems he likes nice shoes at a bargain basement price.Size 11.5.

[LucyT]

There are a couple of threads about the eBay sale of bHo’s Kenyan birth certificate. Here is one link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2280528/posts

[real_patriotic_american]

Well, it fits Obama. He’s a Chicago thug politician you know.

[real_patriotic_american]

Interesting. Verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting.

Excerpt: “In effect, Obama, by way of his Press Secretary, just admitted to committing felony document fraud as what is posted on the Internet is a forgery, a false government identification document in violation of Federal statutes.”

[LucyT]

Here’s the other thread about eBay and the birth certificate.

Re: ‘Proof’ of Kenyan birth twice scrubbed by eBay

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2280932/posts

[Plummz]

This would mean Barry lost his US citizenship when he attended Occidental as a Kenyan.

U.S. has no treaty on mutual recognition of dual citizenship with other countries. In the late XIX - early XX centuries. United States ratified a number of treaties on nationality (the so-called «contract Benkrofta», on behalf of a well-known am. Diplomat J. Benkrofta), but their goal was just the prevention of cases of dual nationality by automatic deprive a person of U.S. citizenship when adopting the State of nationality of the counterparty under the contract, and vice versa.

[Plummz]

Was it a Kenyan marriage license missing?

[Polarik]

Thanks, Buckeye.

[Polarik]

I haven’t seen the Hawaiiam marriage license between Dunham and OBama. It has not been released by Obama or by FOIA.

For who wojuld a Kenyan marriage license be?

[Plummz]

Maybe you haven’t seen the Hawaii marriage license because there ain’t one.

[Frantzie]

Kudos to you Polarik for your tireless efforts.

[Kenny Bunk]

Thanks all for your forbearance on my particular slant, i.e., a movement to get state legislatures to require their state's electors to demand documentary proof of eligibility.

My enthusiasm for this solution is based on legal advice and opinion. However, I do not wish it to appear that I am in opposition to other modes of seeking resolution to this problem. I am not. It is simply impossible to understand them all, because, despite the simple and clear words of the Constitution, this is a very complex problem and has never been satisfactorily addressed in the history of the Republic.

Suffice it to say, we all know the answer. The hard part is "Where do we ask the friggin' questions with the force of law behind us and require the man and his supporters to honestly answer? How do we apply the penalty? The Vice President is a party to the deception. Does he become President, if the Presdient is removed?"

Come Hell or high water, I do not believe that Obama will be the Democratic candidate in 2012. That however, is a very unsatisfactory solution to this Constitutional crisis.

[Polarik]

That’s what I think.

[Polarik]

From the beginning, Donofrio has felt that Obama would NOT hide behind a VALID birth certificate that would repudiate him — unless it REALLY exists. Obama, when forced, would pop up with the Long Form, in his big “ah-ha!” moment that would back HIS claim and DESTROY ALL “birther” claims.

That was supposed to be Obama's surprise. TRolls continue to talk about it, but after spending $1 million to quash the eligibiligy lawsuits, the "Ah-ah" is more of an "Oh-sh*t" as he wold love for these to go away. But, forgeries are forever. He will get nailed on it.

[Kenny Bunk]

It occurs to me that as we press forward in debate along multiple points of law, that Team Obama has prepared a defense in depth for each of the points debated on this thread.

That, IMHO, is where the well-documented "millions in legal fees" have gone, not in defending the many lawsuits, all of which to date, seem to have rather quickly foundered on the rock of "no standing," after disappointingly brief and even cursory hearings in state courts, and also on appeal. And of course as we know, SCOTUS showed little interest in taking up the fight on the grounds, I think, that it is a state and congressional matter.

Besides the obviously ongoing legal research conducted by Team Obama, there is a massive PR campaign underway to conflate the forged COLB and the missing "long form" Birth Certificate. This effort has succeeded beyond Team Obama's wildest dreams, with even the President's Press Secretary publicly telling the lie.

Don't you think it is high time that a Republican Congressman found the time to publicly refute this damnable lie for the Congressional Record?

Not that I am suggesting Dirty Jim as a role model, but Jim Traficant (ex-D. Ohio and now a guest of the Federal DoC) at least had the cojones to publicly take on Bill and Hillary?

We must have one guy who doesn't have serious federal time hanging over him who is as tough as Traficant!

Now, Michelle Obama is carefully floating yet another trial balloon on the possibility of Obama's birth out of wedlock, and there is indeed case law that seems to support the automatic citizenship of a bastard born to an American mother by a foreign father! (Whether this would qualify the bastard as "natural born," or not, who the Hell knows?)

Of course, the one area in which Team Obama has no defense is in the matter of the phony facsimile COLB posted on the web. It is. And they did it. But, and is a big legal BUT, can this outrageously fraudulent document be shown to a State Attorney General as having actually been presented as proof of eligibility to his state's electors? Why isn't that necessary? To the best of anyone's knowledge, was there a state in which Presidential Candidate Obama formally did that? Or, is this just a (my state's Attorney General) legal excuse for doing nothing?

Has anyone tried to get a state's Attorney General to take up the case (and the cause)? As we wrangle amongst ourselves to Obama's probable merriment and benefit, it again occurs to me that what we need is a leader of national stature to ramrod the effort, with working groups pursuing each possible remedy. On another thread, I had suggested Haley Barbour, but no one seemed to think much of the idea, but a Republican State Governor would be ideal, particularly if he had the benefit of Republican majorities in his legislature, or a tough Attorney General spoiling for a fight.

The GOP is looking forward to a big comeback in 2010, but no one it seems is willing to take on Obama and say what needs to be said, and in the case of the forgery, do what needs to be done. Obama out before 2012? I'm in, tell me what to do.

[Polarik]

Has anyone tried to get a state's Attorney General to take up the case (and the cause)?

Yes I have, but only the first 50: I still have another seven to go.

[Kenny Bunk]

.....but only the first 50: I still have another seven to go.....

I heard it through the grapevine ......those 7 remaining Attorneys General are definitely in the Obama column. In fact, they probably have Birth Certificates ... with pictures ... ready to go.

BTW, whom do you like as a leader the national effort to get these issues on the table ... or at least on the news? Our team is OK, but we need a coach and quarterback.