Going to Gun Show tomorrow (suggestions?)

11-1-08

[Boiling Pots]

I am going to the gun show tomorrow, and I need a rifle. I am thinking something that uses .223 ammunition.

Suggestions?

[SVTCobra03]

Good advice. I would recommend a Mossberg 930 SPX.

[Stentor]

I have a Beretta A302 with a 30 inch barrel. Haven’t used it much. What would you suggest feed it in an urban environment? I’m not going to have anything other than a 410 and 2in .38. What can I put in that 410? (female user)

[SVTCobra03]

Obviously you have never fired a M16 in combat.

[GeneralisimoFranciscoFranco]

$800-$1,000 Is almost enough for a good AR-15. You might get lucky and find a good one in that range. Don’t listen to all the rhino hunters here with the 308s 30-06 etc etc. That little 223 will kill two legged varmints all day long out to 500 yards. And the ammo is way cheaper and way lighter, as is the rifle itself. I’m sure part of your reasoning is for just in case the poo ever really hits the fan. If it does, mobility trumps big bang-bang.

[Boiling Pots]

The AK sounds good to me...cheap, reliable. Is it able to use a variety of ammunition?

[oldenuff2no]

Flat trajectory is OK as long as it retains enough energy and the lighter bullets do not retain enough energy at longer distances. Repeatable trajectory with heavier bullets at good velocities is much better.
A 308 at a thousand yards is a much better caliber than a 25-06 even though it is slower, has more drop, uses much heavier bullets, and the ballistic coefficient isn't as good. The 308 held all the distance records for many years but I don't remember anyone shooting serious distance comp with a 25. If I had to pick one off the shelf long range gun today it would be one of the short 300 mags as my first choice and one of the short 7MM mags as my second choice. There are a ton of 30 cal and 7MM bullets out there for reloading but only a handful of 25's. Even the 270 comes up short when looking for reloading components. You may think reloading is not an issue but every distance shooter I have ever known reloads. In any long range comp you will not find a single shooter using factory loads. I keep a few thousand rounds worth of bullets powder and primers around. I have the proper diameter bullets and dies for every firearm I own. I will never be dependent on the government allowing me to buy ammo. If things get tough I will "roll my own."

[oldenuff2no]

I would take a good look at the ruger mini 14’s or their ranch rifles. More money but a lot better made firearms.

[Joe 6-pack]

"I have a Beretta A302 with a 30 inch barrel. Haven’t used it much. What would you suggest feed it in an urban environment?"

I'm not really familiar with the availability of tactical loads for .410s...certainly slugs are worthy of consideration. I know that the Taurus Judge has come out in recent years. It's a large revolver that's capable of handling .410 shotgun shells and .45 Colt revolver rounds (see, gunmakers can do the "hybrid" thing too!). I mention it only because I think it's popularity has even caught the manufacturer by surprise, and I'm guessing it would have prompted some ammo manufacturers to come out with some new .410 loads that you could research, but personally, I don't have a lot of experience with .410 shotguns. I'd say that, IMHO, a 30" barrel is a bit long for a defensive shotgun and may prove a bit unwieldy in the house with the lights out...

As to your 2" .38, again it's a matter of your comfort level, willingness to train, and to a certain degree the make/model/condition of the weapon. There are some +P and +P+ (high pressure) .38 loads out there that almost replicate the performance of some .357 mag loads. In a short barreled weapon, they can produce some very uncomfortabl recoil, but with training and the right grips for you hands, is still manageable. They will accelerate the wear and tear on the weapon, so I'd avoid their use in say an older model Colt Detective Special which don't have as beefy a construction as some other snub-nosed .38s.

[achilles2000]

Something that fires 7.62 x 39, something in 30.06, and a Saiga 12 with a big magazine....

[Armedanddangerous]

Sorry to tell you, but Ruger just filed a recall notice on the 380 autos...last week I think.

[Armedanddangerous]

Good answer sir

I have a rifle with a noveske upper on an Olympic lower.

It runs like a house on fire.

[Armedanddangerous]

You can use any 7.62x39 ammo in the AK. Most of it is dirt cheap.

I buy my ammo, made by wolf, for 4 bucks or so for a box of 20.

[oldenuff2no]

The 5.56 and the 223 rem rounds are exactly the same cartridge. There is always a slight variance between manufactures and bullet types/weights. I would never shoot the FMJ military bullets in any 223/5.56 anyway. I want an expanding bullet if I'm betting my life on it.
I keep hearing people talk about how cheap different ammo is. My life is worth whatever ammo preforms the best in that particular firearm even if I have to load premium bullets myself to get the best accuracy and terminal bullet performance.
I'll let others bet their lives on the “Cheap stuff.” A 223 FMJ at 500 yards is going to have minimal penetration and very little impact energy to expend into a target. I shoot long range comp and hunt at extended ranges when necessary. I know exactly what it takes to bring down a 200# animal at 500 yards. To begin with not many people can hit the an 8" circle at 500 yards and that is the "vitals" area where the bullet needs to go. Then you need to have a heavy enough bullet to get the penetration, (retained energy) necessary to get into the boiler room. After that you need the properly constructed bullet that is made to expand at that specific terminal velocity. Don't bet your life or the lives of your loved ones on a 223 at extended range. Proof in point is that no military in the world uses the 223 for an extended range sniper round.

[steve0]

If your haven’t made a purchase to put yourself on the trigger side of a SHOTGUN then you may soon find yourself looking down the barrel on the receiving end of a shotgun.

It’s your choice.

[Stentor]

Thanks.

[PapaBear3625]

The AK sounds good to me...cheap, reliable. Is it able to use a variety of ammunition?

As long as it's 7.62x39

It should cycle reliably using any halfway decent ammo maker's stuff, as well as mil-surplus. Be careful when buying mil-surplus, as the older stuff can be corrosive.

For long-term storage, keep ammo away from humidity and large temperature swings. At the gun show, those mil-surplus .50-cal ammo cans are excellent for long-term storage as they are pretty much air tight. Pack your ammo away on a low-humidity day and put it in the back of your closet (NOT in your attic or garage -- reduce temp swings)

[BobS]

Don’t buy cheap. Go for the .50 caliber rifle. The scope costs $5K more. You want to hit a target 7000 feet downrange.

[SVTCobra03]

You don’t need a .308 for close quarters combat; i.e. Obama Zombies post election riots.

[BobbyT]

Google disagrees...and the extreme nature of the “conversion” is why I used quotation marks.

Still, all the custom work would be worth it. A shortened, lightened, aluminum & synthetic Garand with a 30-round magazine and accessory rails? I’ll take one.

[Boiling Pots]

That might be a little too fancy for me. I drop stuff, break things. Something rugged, reliable, and reasonable.