An Unrepentant Proud American

http://MsUnderestimated.com | 7/4/2008 | MsUnderestimated

[MsUnderestimated]

http://msunderestimated.com/2008/07/05/an-unrepentant-proud-american/

[MsUnderestimated]

Happy Birthday to the greatest nation on this earth. After seeing the Capitol's 4th Celebration on PBS, NASCAR on ESPN2, and watching fireworks off of my patio, I was so truly proud to be an American on this day. It also reminded me of a stunning exchange I recently had with a former co-worker of mine, which left me wondering "aren't all other people proud of their own countries?".

My company is based in Germany, and my colleague Ingrid (I'll call her), was in town here in Atlanta to do training for my department. Ingrid has been with the company since the mid 1990s, and she was an integral part of the IT team that conducted software implementations and rollouts to most of the other sites around the world when they would come online with our global platform. So she's been around the world quite a bit. I really didn't know Ingrid very well, as I had met her only a few times. However, on her last trip to Atlanta, I was in a week-long intensive training with her, and really got to spend some time talking to her.

One day in training, she came in and said the night before when she arrived back in her hotel, she tuned in to C-SPAN. That particular night, they were showing Congressional hearings about whether or not to begin impeachment proceedings on President Bush and V.P. Cheney. She said she was fascinated by it, and remarked that if he was half as guilty of things as they were saying he was, she thought they should be impeached.

Not knowing she was talking to the department's resident political person, my American colleague just shot me that look like "oh, no... please don't go there," but I just couldn't help it. I told her that even without knowing or having seen the hearings she watched, I could tell her that probably the majority of those testifying were also buying into the 9/11 truther mindset. She said she had seen Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," and believed every bit of it. Needless to say, my American colleague decided it was time for his lunch break.

Ingrid said she had a general impression that Americans didn't like to discuss politics because in the past when she's brought them up to folks in our Atlanta office, people would just not engage her, or they would give the pat response "I'm not into politics." I told her that most likely she'd encountered others who were either unarmed in terms of what's going on in the world, or those who had such a visceral response to American politics, that they could not effectively argue their points and they just refused to participate in a civil discussion.

We had to get back to our training, but we both agreed we'd like to have a further discussion later. On Friday after work, we decided to go out for a few beers and appetizers at a local Taco Mac restaurant by the office. I thought we'd be there for an hour or so, but I went home around 9 p.m.

We fully engaged in robust debate and discussion about the realities of the world today, and we both educated each other to some extent. Ingrid's main contention as to why she hates George W. Bush is because she thinks the Iraqi war was his personal choice and that he was responsible for all the deaths of the troops, as well as the suffering of military widows, parents who'd lost children, etc., and that it was all President Bush's fault. She hates war with such venom that she cannot see past that emotion. I told her that nobody likes war, and that sometimes, war is a necessary evil. I told her one of the phrases that most pisses off a lot of Americans is the phrase "this is an unpopular war." What war is popular? Even the Revolutionary War was unpopular, as were all that followed, but it didn't mean they weren't necessary or warranted. The "unpopular war" theme is just a tag to further enhance Bush Derangement Syndrome.

She said she she felt there were too many casualties in war, not just on the battlefield, but all of the families back home who suffered when their loved ones were wounded or killed. That seemed to hurt her the most. I almost wondered if she thought we DIDN'T have an all-volunteer military? Did she think that President Bush was ordering folks into war against their will? I said "Ingrid... if I'm an American wife, or if I am an American mother who had a son who enlisted, I would know that part of what that entailed was the possibility that my loved one might not come home." This seemed unrealistic to her. Did she think men and women were pulled from their homes to serve? I'll never know. But in retrospect, it makes my next point even more clear to me now.

She related a story to me that really took me aback. She moved here to Atlanta for a brief period in 2004. When she was here, she did the typical "touristy" thing and went to Stone Mountain Park to see the famous laser show. The laser shows are put on seasonally, and during certain times they are nightly, and others just on the weekend. Stone Mountain is a mountain where the granite face has been carved with the images of Confederate leaders Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

The carved granite surface of Stone Mountain

The laser show is conducted to the sound of different music, but one segment surprised Ingrid.

Toward the end of the show, some images were shown on the rock face of our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Ingrid was frightened as she witnessed everyone around her jump to their feet, cheer, clap, "woo-hoo," high-five each other, cry, hug, and chant "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" and carry on about our men & women in the U.S. Armed Forces. She was absolutely stunned about how proud we are, as Americans, of our country. She told me she could not believe it that we were so proud! Now, for one who is not easily surprised, I dropped my fork, dropped my chin, looked her in the eye and asked "are you serious?" She said "yes, I'm completely serious - I was frightened!"

For the first time that night, I was truly speechless; and incredulous. Was she really serious? She said that she later would have friends over to visit from Germany, and she would take them to Stone Mountain to see the laser show. She wanted them to witness the same thing she had. And not to her surprise, they all reacted the same way she did. They were shocked at the overwhelming pride we have for our troops and our country.

Like me, I am only one voice in America and have my opinion. So it wouldn't be appropriate to say all Germans feel the same way Ingrid does. But from what she explained to me, all of her friends and all of her visitors felt the same way. I would have thought that every person on this planet would be robust with pride of their own country. But apparently not, at least for this small group of Germans I knew. Did they have an undying shame for what Hitler did? Could they not overcome that and realize how far they'd come? Certainly America has had her flaws, and I am ashamed of slavery and other injustices of the past in America, but we have come a long way. And so has Germany. How can this shame be so ingrained and not be able to be shed?

I'm reminded of a recent book by Shelby Steele called "White Guilt." And I wonder if some Germans didn't feel some sort of "Hitler Guilt" for their past. Can't they recognize how far they and the rest of the world has come? We have to learn to forgive what has happened in the past so we can move forward, but I wonder what is the German psyche that won't allow that? Even if it's just in the persons whom I know personally?

Ingrid still has her opinions of President Bush and America, and I told her that Al Qaeda has been attacking Western interests for a long time, and that the desire for the Islamic Caliphate is something that has long been festering. She seems to have been stuck in that guilt phase, and thinks all countries just should mind their own business.

Then she talked about the lack of WMDs found in Iraq. Oh, boy, here we go. I told her that whether or not she knew it, there were WMDs in Iraq (hundreds of ricin-filled weapons heads), and that all of the other intelligence agencies (including Egyptian Pres. Hosni Mubarak) had told us that Saddam had WMDs and would use them on our troops in Afghanistan. After all, why wouldn't we believe them if he'd used them on hundreds of thousands of Iraqis? Plus, I reminded her, that as the world's greatest superpower, what would have happened if Pres. Bush wouldn't have acted, and Saddam DID use WMDs on any Western country? Bush was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

I reminded her of the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, in Kenya and Tanzania, the U.S. Marine barracks, and countless other atrocities against the West since the 70s. Clinton lobbed a few missiles at an aspirin factory, but President Bush was finally the one to do something about the problem with Islamofascist terrorism. She said she still hated war and that's why she didn't like Bush. I respect that, but it just confirms my belief that our media (as well as the International media) are wholeheartedly to blame for the world's opinion of the U.S.

I then asked her hypothetically, "who is it that the world comes to for help in times of need?" She correctly answered "America." We talked about the Tsunami in Indonesia and the U.S.S. Mercy Ship being the first there, and that politics were the last thing the U.S. considers in times of need around the world. She also was not aware of Bob Geldof's befuddlement about the world's lack of recognition of Pres. Bush and his commitment to helping with AIDS in Africa. From a Washington Times article:

Mr. Geldof praised Mr. Bush for his work in delivering billions to fight disease and poverty in Africa, and blasted the U.S. press for ignoring the achievement.

Mr. Bush, said Mr. Geldof, "has done more than any other president so far."

"This is the triumph of American policy really," he said. "It was probably unexpected of the man. It was expected of the nation, but not of the man, but both rose to the occasion."

"What's in it for [Mr. Bush]? Absolutely nothing," Mr. Geldof said.

Mr. Geldof said that the president has failed "to articulate this to Americans" but said he is also "pissed off" at the press for their failure to report on this good news story.

"You guys didn't pay attention," Geldof said to a group of reporters from all the major newspapers.

I told her that regardless of what other countries think of America, it IS America the world first looks to in times of need, and that we always come running. She acknowledged that and said the world should be grateful. However, she did say Germans were generally glad that their country refused to participate in the war in Iraq. And she railed about the U.S. not allowing the Red Cross to visit detainees in the War on Terror. Geez, what is the international media telling the rest of the world? She knew nothing of KSM, Abu Nidal, the Blind Sheikh and others. This conversation was a long one.

Lastly, she knew nothing of Gen. Petraeus, the counter-insurgency, what's truly happening in Iraq, but was completely enamored with Barack Obama and his "change" mantra. That's when I decided Ingrid needed one more gift to go back home with. I gave her my copy of Michael Yon's "Moment of Truth In Iraq," and told her if she was as hungry for knowledge as she said she was, she should read the book. I told her it was not all rosy about the war, but it was a first-hand account of what's really happening in Iraq. She promised to read it, and before she left, she said she was learning a lot from it. But in the end, she said she still detested war.

I reminded her that we do, too.

But I love my country so much I can never understand her bewilderment in that pride.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Danke!!!

:)

[TAdams8591]

"But I love my country so much I can never understand her bewilderment in that pride."

Is it that Germans are not so proud of their country, the reason you suggest, or that THEIR opinion of the U.S. is so low, the Germans couldn't imagine that our opinion of America would be any different and certainly not so different that we would have such pride in our country and our troops?

[Coldwater Creek]

I live in the Memphis, Tenn. area. Everyday, I hear people say that they are ashamed of our country. Most are angry at President Bush, and can't see they the Dems are the source of their problems. They just vomit out what they have heard from the MSM.

[PoliticsAndSausages]

I guess it's mainly that most Germans' opinion of 'the troops' and 'our country' is influenced by the history of our troops and our country. Most of them just did their duty, and we all know where that went. Obviously doing your duty isn't enough then, and nothing to cheer about.

Also, Nazi Germany was pretty big on military marches, parades and 'Deutschland über alles'. That is why most Germans like to keep a distance to stuff like that and tend to be a little frightened or bewildered about that kind of mass displays of Patriotism, Nationalism and Chauvinism.

[TAdams8591]

"I guess it's mainly that most Germans' opinion of 'the troops' and 'our country' is influenced by the history of our troops and our country."

Do you mean, "is influenced by history of THEIR troops and THEIR country?"

Good explanation that makes a lot of sense. Such American displays are Patriotic and Nationalistic, but I disagree with the use of the term Chauvinisitc to describe them.

[PoliticsAndSausages]

Well, I'm German, so I guess 'our' is the operative term :)

And while I think I understand that phrases like: "The best country in the world." are not meant derogatory to other countries, they can easily come across like that. But I'm totally aware that while most Americans view their way of life as the best one, they do not want to force their way onto other countries and view their way of life as less worthy.

[TAdams8591]

Well, we don't want to force anything on anyone, unless their attempting to force something on us or others. After disposing of Saddam Hussein, there is a few more evil, threatening dictators, I'd like to see us depose. : )

I studied German in high school and college and always got all A's. : ) I love the language and much of the culture, and would love to visit Germany someday. It is first on the list of countries in Europe or anywhere in the world I'd like to travel to, and yes even ahead of France and Italy. : )

[PoliticsAndSausages]

Yeah, Mugabe's really begging for it, I suppose.

I tend to perfer sunny places with a good ratio of old stuff and young women myself :D

[TAdams8591]

I don't quite get the gist of your comment. : )

BTW, I'm a woman and unlikely to pick a travel destination based on the number of young women who may or may not be present at a particular location.

[PoliticsAndSausages]

Someone just smuggled a video of the voting conditions out of Zimbabwe. In case you didn't see it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/04/zimbabwe1

And you probably don't even choose locations according to young male tourists. Something my inferior male brain will never be able to comprehend :)

[Red6]

O Bull Shit-

That's simply a convenient argument to use, like the BS argument years ago that Germany could do much in Desert Storm because their Constitution prevented them.

Bottom line, your people and the political establishment likes the position they're in. They enjoy not being the target of drug cartels, Islamic radicals, communist or rouge despots. It's nice only spending 1.5% of GDP on defense, while the US and other spend double or more. Germany is in a position where she can suck on the teat of free trade, where her people can move around freely, where she has complete and unlimited access to the worlds resources, where a world order exists that protects intellectual property, allows for the open use of water ways, where her people can fly safely over the Mediterranean and vacation in Egypt, Israel, but Germany is simply a nation that does not want to move a finger to do anything for it.

The arguments of some historic hang up, the Constitution preventing it, bla bla bla, are facade arguments, crap pulled straight from the ass to make oneself feel good. ***Germany today is simply a nation that does not want to pay the price economically, politically, or in blood/security for taking action.*** If S. Korea were invaded tomorrow, what would your people and government do? What exactly is your excuse in Afghanistan again? Uneingeschraengte solidaritaet, right? How long did that last?

***The German way is to redefine their inaction through Heuchelei and schadenfreude as some great act of strength, intellectual superiority, courage, or even moral superiority.*** Look at Iraq, the war on drugs, Libya.... as examples.

[PoliticsAndSausages]

Hm, we're still in Afghanistan. We, like many others, paid for the US' first Gulf War. And I fail to see how the constitution is convenient. You wrote it, after all. And regarding the safe intellectual property: After the Anthrax attacks in the USA, German medical companies were forced to hand over the patent for a drug helping against Anthrax. If we were always so determined, Africa would properly be free of AIDS.

Also, while I always enjoy fighting your straw men, your main point obviously has nothing to do with what I said in the post you quoted. German animosity towards military marches, patriotism and supporting the troops is an entirely different topic, isn't it?

[Red6]

Seven years later, and no German Tornado can drop a bomb. Within three months of beginning the Afghan campaign YOUR people tried to backpedal and “Uneingeschraengte Solidaritaet” became a few troops in the North, restricted from engaging in direct combat, watching poppy fields grow right under their nose and not doing a damn thing about it. Tell your little Maerschenstunde to someone else. What are you doing in Columbia where most of the cocaine even on German streets comes from? What are you doing in Sinai? Boy, I’m glad two German ships are sitting and doing nothing off the coast of Israel. Your help reference Libya is well noted and please don’t try to take credit for that either, because it wasn’t your big German intellectualism that changed Kaddafi’s course. So how are your great negotiations with Iran, how did those go? Who will eventually take action if it is taken, and who will sit on the side lines giving us “Ratschlaege.” I’m sure we’ll get lots of great suggestions on how we can wage that campaign too if it were to happen, and at every missed bomb I’m sure you’ll have a story of how you would have done it different. You always have an excuse for why you should not, could not and would not do anything. When you do something, as post 2006 or Afghanistan you do as little as possible, as late as possible, from as far away as possible.

There is only one constant with you Germans. You see yourselves as the perpetual victim. May it be the Jew in the past, or today the Ami who is behind your self created socialist misery. The wall dividing your own country didn’t fall because of anything YOUR people did. The Cold War didn’t end because of YOUR people and those like Fischer, Brandt, Lafontaine, Ditfurth. Along the entire Cold War from Berlin Airlift until the wall fell in 1989, even though like Korea and Vietnam your own country was divided and part of the battle between the Western Free world and communism, your own people shouted statements like “Lieber Rot wie Tot,” and were to eager to jump on the anti-Vietnam bandwagon. How many German troops were in Vietnam? Who was on the East side of that iron curtain and where did those West Germans sit? It is your country that could not deal with reality in the Cold War and sat in the background while others did its bidding in places like Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Grenada, Angola, and even in your own country. While others were fighting a war your people were protesting the stationing of the Persching, GLCM, and air launched nuclear weapons; weapons which saved your ass and helped bring an end to the Cold War. Today the same intellectual arguments with a slight twist are the ones you hear reference a missile defense shield, which your government made big statements about (Schroeder/Fischer), but behind closed doors within NATO wanted assurances that Germany too be under the Interceptor umbrella. To cowardly to even stand up and present the official position of that administration, through ministerial channels bilaterally and through NATO, your government bought SM3, Patriot PAC3, joined in on MEADS, and wanted assured that it be under Interceptor (All intended for TBM defense). Of course while this was happening, we dumb Ami’s heard your great intellectual pontification on how we are starting a new arms race, destabilizing the world, and how of course this is not even technically possible and just a big American ploy of sorts. Yes yes, Bush oil cowboy, got it.

It’s a mooching relationship, where certain nations carry a disproportionate burden may that be financially since we pay proportionally two to three **TIMES** what Germany does on defense, in blood like those Americans that died in YOUR country at the hands of YOUR own people that belonged to such organizations as the RAF, in security since the bad guys go after the leader of the pact (There is a reason why Islamic terrorists will throw an American in a wheelchair over board the Achila Laura but leave the Germans alone, why the WTC were their prized target…etc), and politically since someone like Schroeder doesn’t need worry about dealing with the media and opposition politics unlike a Reagan or Bush that take action. While you talk of multilateralism, you’re willing to sacrifice anything and everyone in order to stay in the background, in order to keep your status as a moocher. Throwing you out of the security nest would mean we would have to sacrifice NATO, and cutting you out of the picture economically in places like Iraq where you did nothing, once again, would cause a chain of events that take us back to an era where certain nations ruled over certain areas and the resources found there, de facto colonialism. In the end, Germany has the option of not helping, and it is beneficial not too, because it’s safer, cleaner, and cheaper’; but don’t tell us how you’re intellectually superior or that your past is somehow holding you back, or that the war in Iraq is illegitimate and that’s why your not there, or how you would have not done this or that. Nonsense, that’s heuschelei.

As I said, the German arguments are always the same, and what they really boil down to is schadenfreude and heuschelei. The German people don’t want to do anything, nor do the politicians and you use your past as a facade when convenient. When you have 250,000 Bosnian refugees sitting in your country, then of course you do appreciate marching music, then you do support the troops (even ours) and you have no problems with our bombs either, even those that miss their target. I’m glad you’re at least in the Balkans, your own back yard, a war you were the political engine of, a war that you stood to gain from, that at least there you have a major role, hurra Deutschland!

Do you know what hollow words are worth? Do you know what petitions saying how terrible 911 signed by your countrymen are worth? Where are the actions? What is your excuse in Afghanistan again? It is my country that has bled even on your land, and your people are the ones with a big mouth, that do nothing but give us lots of advice.

Germany: 1.5% GDP on defense.

UK: 2.4%

France: 2.6%

US: 4.06%

S. Korea: 2.7%

…See a trend?

US dead in Desert Storm: 368 KIA, 776 WIA, cost in addition to operational budgets (Not counting long term costs either, such as fatigue on airframes of C-5s, C-141’s (Which had to be retired earlier than planned because of all the hours racked up on them), helicopters, wear and tear on the fleet of tanks, VA system etc.: 62 Billion 1990 USD, German contribution 5.7 billion or 9% of only the additional costs not counting long term added costs. But you are right; you did pay something so I guess you carry your weight as a nation./sarc

What did your people do when Libyan agents blew up a disko in Berlin “La Belle” (1986) and killed GIs and several Germans? I’ll tell you what your people did, because I persoanlly saw it! You hung on the fences of our instalations protesting when we bombed Libya! Pretty sad statement, but what German is going to remeber that, right?

[PoliticsAndSausages]

You lost your perspective. As if someone had wanted Germany on board in Korea. We weren't even rearmed when Korea took place, no one would have trusted Germany with an army then. And you should realize how long that lasted. Our cold war army was purely defensive. I also fail to see what Vietnam is doing on the list, because they sure as hell wouldn't trust China or Russia to Axis-of-Evil with them. I mean they had their own small war with China not 10 years after your war ended. And they threw out Pol Pot. Some reluctant domino. And for most conflicts, at least the legal, official ones, we paid via NATO.

The Ostverträge under Brandt were probably as important as tough stances. But we're still in somewhat of a cold war with Poland here, even if Brandt started the communication with East Germany, Poland and Russia in '63. We should probably show a tough stance there and shoot down some of their fighters or show our teeth during border incidents, that would probably be a brilliant example of war as diplomacy with other means.

I have no idea about the War on Drugs. I assume it's a feel good war, and I assume we're on board. But I could be wrong.

MEADS and PACs are offensive missile defense. They are mobile and short to medium range. We need them to protect troops.

The idea that Germany should heavily involve herself in international politics is fairly new. Since the political landscape changed in '89, or at least since the aftershock of that settled, Germany is trying to find her new direction, restructuring their army, heavily involving themselves in Europe. And as our international influence is limited and our map of Africa has France on the left and Russia on the right (to paraphrase Bismarck), we concentrate on our core business and enjoy the advantages of living under whoever's in charge.

[PoliticsAndSausages]

And that stuff about protesters and so on is also totally misguided. In democratic countries, you will have protesters against military action. Same in the USA. If you show the world a democratic Endlösung for dissenters, I’m pretty convinced we’ll get China, Russia, Iran and N. Korea to be fine Democracies in no time.

[Red6]

With a German all you need do is scream “Kein Blut fuer Oel,” and they will immediately understand your deep intellectual understanding of the situation. Then follow it up with a quick “Bush Oel Cowboy,” and most Germans will see that you're well read and understand the situation thoroughly.

Ask Ingrid when the Pipeline running through Afghanistan will be finished that her people talked about already in 2001? Ask her when we will start drilling in Somalia that her people also talked about in 1993? What people fail to see is that these stories of pipelines and oil contracts and “vast unexplored oil reserves under the ground in Somalia” (Talked about in the German media the SAME DAY US Marines arrived) are nothing but excuses to delegitimize the action we're taking. That's why she harps on WMD and will claim Iraq was about oil too. It's the German way to rationalize inaction and take some moral high ground for doing nothing. The German word for this is heuchelei:ein moralisch negativ besetztes Verhalten. Sie äußert sich im Gegensatz zwischen dem von einer Person zur Schau getragenen Bild ihrer selbst und der Realität.

And this is typically then mixed with a good dose of Schadenfreude, as Ingrid did when she talks of dead US troops, or the Iraqi's plight, bla bla bla. Schadenfreude: wird die Freude über das Missgeschick oder Unglück anderer bezeichnet. Sie kann versteckt als heimliche Schadenfreude empfunden werden oder sich als offene Schadenfreude (Hohn, Spott, Ironie, Häme, Sarkasmus) zeigen. Bei der offenen Schadenfreude wird diese Emotion dem “Verursacher” direkt mitgeteilt.

Just tell Ingrid that her Germany has changed and learned a lot since the 30s and 40s. Back then they pushed people into ovens, today they just sit and watch as others do it. Think about this. After WWII the Germans out of guilt said “Nie wieder!” What happened 100 miles from their Southern boarder just 40 years later and why did they sit on their hands and do nothing UNTIL 250,000 refugees sat in their country? Germany went from Unmoral to Amoral, and they will even push responsibility of Rwanda on us, saying that we should have done something to stop the genocide and claim that we didn't do anything one year after Somalia because there was no oil there, but do they ever look in the mirror and ask themselves “Warum machen wir nichts?” What German do you hear saying that they should help Israel in it's struggle, a free republic, ruled by law, a nation they do trade with? All you'll hear from these proud and highly intellectual Germans are excuses for why they could not, should not, and did not. You'll hear grand theories of the "real" reasons we went to war, a lot of advice, and lots of talk about our casualties and those of the civilians etc. You will hear them talk about how we deserved it, as after 911; for sure every misstep along the way they will be there to talk about. Sad Volk.

[Ditter]

My best friend was born in Holland in 1940 as was her husband. Their very earliest memories are of the German invasion of their country. They are pacifist and they hate war so badly that they can't even discuss it. The woman is so afraid of guns, she can't even look at an unloaded gun laying on a table.

What you said about the international media being responsible for the dislike of American around the world is true. In 2001 we went hunting in New Zealand. when we arrived at the lodge the first thing our host said to me was, “how could you elected such a stupid man as Bush?”.

He told me he was a news junkie and later I found him glued to the TV watching CNN International. By this time I was so fed up with his arrogance that I barley spoke to him but it was obvious his mind was made up about President Bush.
I wasn't going to change it no matter what I said so I just stayed as far away from him as I could.

[Night Hides Not]

Looks like nothing much has changed in the past 30 years, give or take a few. I was in the fourth year of my tour in Germany during the 1980 elections. In the town I lived in, my neighbors were pleading with me to vote for Carter, because Reagan was a cowboy that was going to start WWIII. Fortunately, my German was sufficiently advanced that I was able to explain that Reagan would be far better for the US, and the world, than Jimmy Carter.

My efforts resulted in being asked to sit at the stammtisch of my neighborhood gasthaus.

I've grown weary of "guilt trips": white guilt, male guilt, American guilt. Frankly, I've never had "American guilt". I don't flinch from the wrongs we've committed in our past, but I challenge anyone to show me a country that has done more to right itself.

I challenge anyone to show me a people that has done more for other countries than the US.

One final comment: don't come to Texas and bad-mouth the USA (or Texas). You'll get your a$$ kicked.

[Red6]

“And that stuff about protesters and so on is also totally misguided. In democratic countries, you will have protesters against military action.”

If we operated with the modus operandi of your nation, Berlin would have fallen, and so would have W. Germany. And that’s no over exaggeration.

You might want to learn a bit more about the domino theory and what happened in Vietnam and its aftermath before you make half baked connections. Your “Der Spiegel” world isn’t the way it worked. Actually China helped Vietnam during the war as did the Soviets and hardware found in Vietnam came from places as far away as the DDR (parts for missiles) and Romania (RPGs). You might want to read up a bit on Pol Pot and who backed him, and why, and why his rampage was made possible and why he was stopped on the boarders of Thailand and who helped back Thailand so that they would stand (Another place you weren’t but where you today see fat Germans vacationing). You’re a typical German, and you’re just smart enough to scream things like “Irak wird wie Vietnam,” while smirking and hoping this becomes the case to justify your inaction.

But when the dust settles, your type will have no problem taking credit for Afghanistan, the Balkans, etc etc etc. With your big German foreheads and “dialog,” you solved the real world’s problems, I know.

***The Soviets were brought to their knees with dollars and bullets,*** not the sweet words of Brandt. It was in places like Grenada (Operation Urgent Furry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada ) where the Cold War was really fought and where another 19 stupid Ami’s fighting for the wrong cause according to you Germans died. An Island with no industry, little tourism, where armed Cuban construction workers, engineers from the DDR (Whom we sent back home after the invasion), and Russian financing piped through Nicaragua was paying for a runway long enough to land strategic bombers, and of course all this was possible after a tin pot dictatorship (Maurice Austin and his Peoples Revolutionary Government) assumed power after a little coupe sponsored by you take a guess who? Who was on the other side of the iron curtain and threatening you?

You have a lot to be proud of, but not for what you have contributed over the last 60 years in terms of our collective security and interests. In security matters, Germany has done little and often nothing, even when she could have done something, even when she was asked to contribute, even when the legitimacy is beyond reproach as in Afghanistan.

I have a theory. The German only has courage with those whom he knows won’t bomb him. After Pan Am 103 and La Belle, your politicians were silent and no action was taken. Even today with Iran, you’re not going to do anything, and the Iranians know it. They know that your negotiations are demonstrations of appeasement intended for the masses back home but they have not and will not give you anything other than lip service. You’ll have courage to protest the Ami, you’ll sit in front of our bases and light things on fire, throw rocks and even make claims that your paying for our bases and installations there (The self victimization you love to do) while it costs the American tax payer roughly 10B a year to operate in Germany years past. But when faced with a Kadaffi you crawl into a corner and piss all over yourself, knowing that guy might light a bomb somewhere in your country if you were to do something about his line of death drawn through the Mediterranean ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Sidra_incident_(1981) ). Germany has been trying to “figure out it role” for a long time, and in reality it has nothing to do with what you claim, and everything to do with sucking on the teat of a global free world where others pay the price for our security and collective interests.