Blogger admits Hawaii birth certificate forgery, subverting Obama claims (Uh-oh)

Israel Insider ^ | 3 July 2008 | Reuven Koret

[null and void]

Well, I’m not sure what merits “of course.” Dreams From my Father was published in 1995 right after BHO finished law school and before he entered politics.

I realize BHO expressed aspirations to becoming president in grade school, but do people honestly believe he wrote that book with an eye to establishing his eligibility for president?

Hard to say. After all, Jean Carrié took a super-8 camera to Vietnam to film his exploits to run in a future campaign to depict himself as a war hero.

Then he found out that war wasn't popular and back-stabbed the real heros.

[null and void]

Also - the mere fact that you and others keep posting these requirements and others keep ignoring this information is suspect to me.

Yep.

One of them resurfaced yet again today.

[Grampa Dave]

bumping and pinging David’s latest entries on this issue:

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=2040486%2C4516

and

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=2040486%2C4517

[DrC]

You said: "I don't know of anyone--no single source anywhere of any single person that even inferred that Stanley Ann was ever seen, even one time, in Honolulu in the period between February 1, 1961 (or whenever fall semester ended) and August 8, 1961." Then how do you interpret this? 1. "For Stanley Ann, her new relationship with Barack Obama and weekend discussions seemed to be, in part, a logical extension of long coffeehouse sessions in Seattle and the teachings of Wichterman and Foubert. The forum now involved graduate students from the University of Hawaii. They spent weekends listening to jazz, drinking beer and debating politics and world affairs." 2. "Six months after they wed, another letter arrived in Kenya, announcing the birth of Barack Hussein Obama, born Aug. 4, 1961. Despite her husband's continued anger, Sarah Obama said in a recent interview, she "was so happy to have a grandchild in the U.S." 3. "After Obama was accepted to study at Harvard, Stanley Ann disappeared from the University of Hawaii student gatherings, but she did not accompany her husband to Harvard. Abercrombie said he rarely saw her after that." http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,1310554.story?page=4 Let me stipulate that nothing in the above directly STATES that Ann was still in Hawaii from February-July 1961. But the most straightforward "connecting the dots" suggests she was: First, does it really makes sense that Sarah Obama would remain completely silent about Ann's having actually been in Africa through the birth, as opposed to expressing either joy at being able to see BHO as an infant and/or expressing regret that Ann couldn't stay in Africa after he was born? Is your argument now that every Obama family member living in Africa has now been sworn to secrecy about what really happened? That's a might large group of conspirators to keep under wraps, don't you think? Second, in light of #1 above, it doesn't make sense that quote #3 would focus on noticing Ann's absence from student gatherings AFTER Senior went to Harvard (i.e., which didn't occur until Barack was 1 or 2, depending on which account you believe) yet say nothing of an extended period in which Ann and Barack Senior allegedly were missing from these lively grad student discussions during nearly all of spring semester 1961 [things could have changed somewhat, but UH's spring semester for the coming year starts in Jan. and ends in May http://www.hawaii.edu/academics/calendar/ as is true of most universities]. Assuredly, their absence may not have been missed during the summer. But PhD programs tend to be small and the same friend who noticed Ann's absence after Senior left most assuredly would have noticed her absence for an entire semester, especially since the fall 1960 "coupling" of these 2 was obviously pretty remarkable at the time.

[DrC]

“given Stanley Ann had been kicked out by her family”

What’s the basis for this claim?

“In a Russian language course, he met an awkward, shy American girl, only 18, and they fell in love. The girl’s parents, wary at first, were won over by his charm and intellect; the young couple married, and she bore them a son, to whom he bequeathed his name.”
http://www.nationmedia.com/EastAfrican/01112004/Features/PA2-2212.html

I think you fundamentally misunderstand who was angry with whom:
“Stanley Ann’s prospective father-in-law was furious. He wrote the Dunhams “this long, nasty letter saying that he didn’t approve of the marriage,” Obama recounted his mother telling him in “Dreams.” “He didn’t want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman.” http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,1310554.story?page=3

In light of the foregoing, your account of them leaving Hawaii to face the wrath of Senior’s father in Africa makes no sense.

[DrC]

Apologies for the unformatted version of this post.

You said: "I don't know of anyone--no single source anywhere of any single person that even inferred that Stanley Ann was ever seen, even one time, in Honolulu in the period between February 1, 1961 (or whenever fall semester ended) and August 8, 1961." Then how do you interpret this?

1. "For Stanley Ann, her new relationship with Barack Obama and weekend discussions seemed to be, in part, a logical extension of long coffeehouse sessions in Seattle and the teachings of Wichterman and Foubert. The forum now involved graduate students from the University of Hawaii. They spent weekends listening to jazz, drinking beer and debating politics and world affairs."

2. "Six months after they wed, another letter arrived in Kenya, announcing the birth of Barack Hussein Obama, born Aug. 4, 1961. Despite her husband's continued anger, Sarah Obama said in a recent interview, she "was so happy to have a grandchild in the U.S."

3. "After Obama was accepted to study at Harvard, Stanley Ann disappeared from the University of Hawaii student gatherings, but she did not accompany her husband to Harvard. Abercrombie said he rarely saw her after that." http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/chi-0703270151mar27,0,1310554.story?page=4

Let me stipulate that nothing in the above directly STATES that Ann was still in Hawaii from February-July 1961. But the most straightforward "connecting the dots" suggests she was: First, does it really makes sense that Sarah Obama would remain completely silent about Ann's having actually been in Africa through the birth, as opposed to expressing either joy at being able to see BHO as an infant and/or expressing regret that Ann couldn't stay in Africa after he was born? Is your argument now that every Obama family member living in Africa has now been sworn to secrecy about what really happened? That's a might large group of conspirators to keep under wraps, don't you think?

Second, in light of #1 above, it doesn't make sense that quote #3 would focus on noticing Ann's absence from student gatherings AFTER Senior went to Harvard (i.e., which didn't occur until Barack was 1 or 2, depending on which account you believe) yet say nothing of an extended period in which Ann and Barack Senior allegedly were missing from these lively grad student discussions during nearly all of spring semester 1961 [things could have changed somewhat, but UH's spring semester for the coming year starts in Jan. and ends in May http://www.hawaii.edu/academics/calendar/ as is true of most universities].

Assuredly, their absence may not have been missed during the summer. But PhD programs tend to be small and the same friend who noticed Ann's absence after Senior left most assuredly would have noticed her absence for an entire semester, especially since the fall 1960 "coupling" of these 2 was obviously pretty remarkable at the time.

[David]

Responsive to your #4524: That comes from the Chicago Tribune series which is an effort to lay a factual background for what he wants to say in public, particularly in the way of adding to or modifying his book. It's what lawyers call "self serving".

Obama's birth location and citizenship was an issue in his earlier campaigns. No one had either the resources or the incentive to do enough research to reach a conclusive answer--proof that he was not a citizen or had not been born in Hawaii was not dispositive of the political contest. In the case at hand, if it can be shown he was born in Kenya, he is disqualified.

But Obama knew, and has known for some time that he has a real Constitutional problem with the issue. Partial evidence of that is in his effort with the Sense of the Senate Resolution he got Clair McKaskil to introduce, ostensibly to support McCain--in fact to address Obama's problem.

Against that back drop, this is his course of events as to how it might have happened and fit the provable factual time line.

This is another one of those descriptions that doesn't set out any supportable fact that places Stanley Ann in Honolulu in the relevant period. Some might remember that she had a "new relationship with Barack Obama (sr)" and had "weekend discussions" which "now involved graduate students". Those things in fact happened in the fall semester of 1960. However it is not disputed that she dropped out of school after the first semester and was not there in the winter semester of 1961.

The people who would have noticed that she was missing probably did. But she returned in August, of 1961 and was present between 1961 and maybe some point in 1962--we could speculate that she parted company with Obama Sr. by March or April of 1962 if the report that she was enrolled at the University of Washington for Spring Quarter, 1962 is correct.

But the Hawaii record is very mushy for this period. I assume that an investigator could pin down exactly when Obama Sr. graduated; and when he in fact started at Harvard. An investigator could also look for Stanley Ann as a single mother student at Washington; with her child?

Sarah didn't remain silent at all. As late as January, there were articles interviewing the Kenya family in which Sarah affirmatively claimed to have been present when he was born in Kenya. Those are all now gone from the record. But enough people on line remember seeing them that there isn't any doubt they were there.

You are correct about the wide group of people whose testimony needs to be controlled--in my view, that is why he will fail. Sarah has now been instructed not to say anything substantive to the press as have the other members of the Kenya family.

Everyone understands that it is fatal to Obama's campaign effort if it can be shown that he was born in Kenya--and it is a relatively simple concept to get to what is in fact a fairly small group of people remaining who have first hand knowledge of 1961.

Obama's personal response has been to stonewall--answer no questions of any nature. Stanley Ann's mother who obviously knows, is sequestered. She remains in full possession of her facilities and will understand the game plan completely. And she will have able lawyers to resist subjecting her to a real deposition.

What is in process is a classic coverup with a cooperative press. Obama has the advantage of a limited time line--he may only need to play defense until November. His principal adversary, Mrs. Clinton, probably has command of more factual material than anyone else. But her tactical ability to use it is limited.

She can't be the person that actually uses the material because that will be politically fatal.

And she has difficulty using her surrogates effectively--because she really can't be sure she will get the nomination if Obama falls, or at least falls too soon. All she can do is threaten--and if it appears that she is getting close to a breakthrough with her surrogates, Obama has the option of trading her the Vice Presidential nomination to get her to shut up. That course of action has its own hazards.

His trip to Hawaii this weekend is timely. We may hear nothing about the outcome. But it is a fair assumption that some effort will be made to address the paper record with the Hawaii Department of Public Health to come up with a legend that will fit the available information.

[Texas Songwriter]

The Hunter lie, the birth certificate lie,...what else has the media not reported in an attempt at collusion to elect Mr.Obama.

[OldEagle]

"His principal adversary, Mrs. Clinton, probably has command of more factual material than anyone else. But her tactical ability to use it is limited."

You are correct. I seriously believe that she has the goods on him and I believe she will use her evidence or she will never be president.

Musings of an old man, perhaps, but has anyone contacted her offering to be her agent?

[Spunky]

Spunky--might be, Yep.

Now in the previsous thread you said; "But depending on how the chips fall I want to extend on it, yet can’t if there is nil interest."

So I am now hoping you will extend on it and be sure to ping me when you do.

[Fred Nerks]

...The message in the forgery is that there is some factual disclosure in the actual filing that casts doubt on the position that he was actually born in Honolulu--otherwise they shouldn't have tried to use the forged document.

I think 'the message in the forgery' is that there never was an Hawaii CoLB at all. If he had one, regardless of names or information on it, he could have used his own and simply changed what he wanted to hide.

If we accept that the CoLB used belonged to someone else, wouldn't that indicate obama had nothing belonging to himself, at his disposal to tamper with?

[Spunky]

I don’t know why when I click on your links, I don’t get Davids latest messages. I get the post reply box to David.

[Spunky]

"Sarah didn't remain silent at all. As late as January, there were articles interviewing the Kenya family in which Sarah affirmatively claimed to have been present when he was born in Kenya. Those are all now gone from the record. But enough people on line remember seeing them that there isn't any doubt they were there."

It would seem to me if those interviews were on the Internet Freepers would have copied and posted them onto FreeRepublic, because that is what we do. So if they were ever online, then there should be some postings of the interviews in the FreeRepublic archives I would think.

[OldEagle]

"I think 'the message in the forgery' is that there never was an Hawaii CoLB at all."

Unless it is a big-time misdirection and we are all weeing in the wind.

[David]

If we accept that the CoLB used belonged to someone else, wouldn't that indicate obama had nothing belonging to himself, at his disposal to tamper with?

Maybe, you can't be sure.

Given the Hawaii Advertiser report and the use of the Accepted for filing date of August 8, I tend to suspect that an affidavit filing of some character will appear.

[David]

It would seem to me if those interviews were on the Internet Freepers would have copied and posted them onto FreeRepublic, because that is what we do. So if they were ever online, then there should be some postings of the interviews in the FreeRepublic archives I would think.

Perhaps. Free Republic is not where I saw them. Although if pressed to say where I did see them, I would not be sure.

I have not been a diligent Freeper the last several years--I spend most of my on line time on a closed site with a bunch of financial managers talking about possible deals. As a matter of fact, the post that initiated my interest in this topic was on the closed site--I will look it up. Because it may be the place I saw the African News article that included the Sarah interview point.

I do not know how tightly this issue would have been followed here--observe we still have a bunch of people that think he will be ok even if he was born in Kenya.

[SE Mom]

http://mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com/2008/08/does-larry-johnson-of-no-quarter-blog.html

Friday, August 8, 2008
Does Larry Johnson of the No Quarter Blog Have a Hard Copy Obama COLB?

I just heard a rumor that Larry Johnson of No Quarter USA has obtained what purports to be a hard copy of Barack H. Obama’s birth certificate. I am eager to learn of the substance of this rumor.
Posted by Mitchell Langbert at 2:41 PM
Labels: Barack Obama, birth certificate, larry johnson, no quarter usa

[browardchad]

I just got a note from the proprietor of the original site that asks me to refile one of the requests on a more current thread--I will do that if I can figure out how to do so.

And what is the name of "the original site," David? Why not post that "note" here?

Browardchad should know that we have been looking at this since January. In the early going, there was stuff in the African periodicals, some of them in English, that has been scrubbed. Those periodicals recited interviews with the Missionaries that got on the BOAC flight on which Stanley Ann was rejected; and with Sarah and the two half-siblings who claimed to have been physically present at Obama's birth in Kenya.

And what sites, specifically, were they "scrubbed" from, David?

There is other stuff that combined adds up to a fair inference that he was in fact born in Kenya.

And what is that other "stuff," David, besides your own theory?

And if not, Stanley Ann's mother really knows--it ought to be a simple task to respond to the birth location argument with real evidence. Why would they use a fraudulent birth certificate?

This isn't about a "faudulent birth certificate," as you well know. It may very well be fraudulent. It's about your insistance, exclusive of all other theories, that the "faudulent birth certificate" indicates that Obama was born in Kenya -- but you have never come up with links or other evidence to prove, or even bolster, your claim, other than the ever elusive "scrubbed" posts.

And by the way, David, if you insert a space after a semicolon when posting to multiple ID's, it doesn't show up in the second poster's comment screen. I came upon this post by accident.

 

[David]

I think you fundamentally misunderstand who was angry with whom: “Stanley Ann’s prospective father-in-law was furious. He wrote the Dunhams “this long, nasty letter saying that he didn’t approve of the marriage,” Obama recounted his mother telling him in “Dreams.” “He didn’t want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman.”

I didn't see this post earlier. The kicking her out came from one of the Susan Blake interviews--or the interview of her other friend from high school; who speculated that she had been sent to Canada to have the baby.

As to the objection of the grandfather, to some degree that is more self serving testimony from Obama--could be true; might have been a problem with the "went to Kenya" events. I doubt it.

[Chief Engineer]

The information about Stanley Armour Dunham being angry about his daughter being pregnant came from step-grandmother Sarah and appeared in the londonukonline series which was done on Obama. At the same time in his book Obama mentioned that Ann and her father were ‘on the outs’ by the time the Dunham family headed for the island.

DrC where did you get the idea that Ann was in a PhD program when she didn’t even have a degree?
On another point ‘The Honolulu Advertiser” verified that Obama Sr graduated and left Hawaii in 1962 before his son was even a year old.