Calling Wolves "Sheep": A respectful disagreement

Thermonuclear Thought ^ | 22 April 08 | Me

[Mr. Silverback]

This is my response to this post by my blog partner Scott.

Sorry I haven't posted one of these in awhile, but lately I've been posting a lot of links and videos, and it seemed like empty bandwidth use if i posted them at FR.

If anyone wants on my blog ping list, say so here or by freepmail.

[Mr. Silverback]

Silverback's blog ping!

If anyone wants on or off my blog ping list, please notify me here or by freepmail.

[wastedyears]

Wasn’t Elian Gonzales here illegally?

[vpintheak]

You are spot on. This cult is ran by perverted old men who get off on sexual perversion and power. They are pure evil who have twisted the minds of too many people. A society who tolerates this behavior is doomed.

[Mr. Silverback]

Wasn’t Elian Gonzales here illegally?

That was the matter at dispute in court, but even if he was illegal and in the wrong custody there was nothing to justify a raid by guys with machine guns.

I note for the record that I oppose the legal standard used in the U.S. where you have to make it to dry land before you are considered to be here legally. As far as I'm concerned, if you make the effort and get rescued, you should be welcomed.

[Mr. Silverback]

You’re correct, but let’s not be too hard on those who disagree. This case has many similarities to some really disturbing incidents of overzealousness and worse by law enforcement, so it reminds them of those tragedies. This ranch reminds me of the Branch Davidiaan compound in a lot of ways.

[When do we get liberated?]

Cubans are considered refugees. We can send them back if intercepted, but if they make it to dry land they are O.K.

[microgood]

2. The idea being advanced that only certain girls (the pregnant teens) or only the female children should have been taken into custody is way, way off. Either every child should have been removed or not a single one should have been removed. If this ranch was what the state claims it was, every adult there was was involved in or knew about a conspiracy to commit serial child sexual abuse. In other words, either the state is lying or there's not a single adult there who should have custody of a child.

I do not buy this line. Would be nice but life is not so simple as this.

[Mr. Silverback]

I do not buy this line. Would be nice but life is not so simple as this.

Could you elaborate? Is it your contention that the average mom at YFZ didn't know that her daughters would be expected to enter into arranged marriages?

[oneolcop]

Perhaps it would help if the FLDS was defined not as a church or a cult but as organized crime. That's what it is. Obviously not the children, not all the women, but the "leadership" and most of the adult -mature- males and females.

They have brainwashed the children for generations to get them to go along with the program and they have rewarded those who have done so.

[wastoute]

I merely pointed out that I wasn't so sure there was a big difference between one man having children with several women (which is supposed to be such a horrible thing) and the occurrence I see daily in our practice of one woman with numerous children by different fathers (which we are supposed to accept without seeming to notice). We seem to have a double standard here. That is all I am saying. I certainly do not condone polygamy and agree the Bible certainly doesn't support it and have had my own back and forth with Mormons here (I am Southern Baptist so you can imagine how that went...)

[stockpirate]

“It is good to be the Prophet”

[vpintheak]

This time no buildings were destroyed and burned, and no people were killed. The government invaded a cult in Texas using brute force, there is the similarity. It was done correctly, and it was done for a good lawful and moral reason. The defenders of this cult have it all screwed up. The people invloved in the FLDS are brainwashed into believing this sick way of life is good. There is no good there.

[microgood]

Could you elaborate? Is it your contention that the average mom at YFZ didn't know that her daughters would be expected to enter into arranged marriages?

I think the issue is not arranged marriages but underage pregancies. I think it is clear that many people at this compound do not know what outside society's version of normal is. I guess you can say they should have known but I've always considered that argument weak. I think that many of these women have no reference point outside of the compound from which to judge the activities inside.

[wastoute]

You posted, “I think it is clear that many people at this compound do not know what outside society’s version of normal is.”

This is my point, I don’t think many freepers know what outside society’s definition of normal is.

[rodeo-mamma]

“Would the government dare to raid a Latino or Black housing project and remove the children wholesale?”

I think that is an interesting concept. There is much abuse that goes on in disfunctional homes where values of right and wrong are not taught. Housing projects for the most part have become nothing more then breeding grounds for antisocial behavior. The abuse that occurs in such situations must be horrific. It is interesting how the government choses to ignore that and makes the claim that people have the right to live alternative life-styles. But do parents have the right to live sexually deviant lives or morally depraved lives ruled by drug addiction when they are raising children? It only screws up the children, requiring government intervention when these children show up in the public school system. Yet no one can address the parents disfunctional life-style of government dependency with all of it’s ugly reprecussions of a life lived without any consequences, because after all, big daddy, the government is paying all the bills.

[oldenuff2no]

Now imagine that the local authorities have been just waiting for and anticipating any excuse to get into this compound. Then take it one step further and imagine how over zealous they were when a tiny unverified and unresearched crack appeared.
I think that there are a lot of people wondering if somehow the local storm troopers didn't figure out a way to initiate the totally bogus and fake call them selves. Local LE are the only ones in this whole situation who got exactly what they wanted!!! I hate the thought of child rape but this whole story started in a lie and has led to the court sponsored kidnap of over 400 children.
One thing is a for sure conclusion. the next time the cops in Texas knock on the door of one of these compounds they will be met with violence. They have made it quite clear that they residents of any communal living alternate belief system have nothing to loose by putting up a fight. The just found out they have everything to loose by letting Law Enforcement in the front door. They have learned that anyone can call from any location and tell a lie and then based on that lie without any verification or research that their children can be taken from them without any physical proof of any wrongdoing on their part. Should we all be very happy that the great state of Texas has taught so many of us so much????

[Mr. Silverback]

I think that many of these women have no reference point outside of the compound from which to judge the activities inside.

I see, and you make a good point. That would, however, mean they were just as unqualified to be a guardian as someone who knew those standards and violated them anyway.

[rodeo-mamma]

"The people involved in the FLDS are brainwashed into believing this sick way of life is good. There is no good there."

Good point, I hate to say it, but even the women seem a little perverted, despite their ridiculous attempt at going overboard to appear overly modest. What a weird group, the women must dress like they are living in the 1800's while the men behave like sexual hounds that would make Hugh Hefner blush. I don't get it, the only thing that I can think is that they are one kinky group of people. They must be stopped, children should not pay for their perverted lifestyle, which by the way would qualify as being an alternative lifestyle according to the radical left.

[oldenuff2no]

If you believe that underage pregnancy is the point of preven guilt on the part of the parents then you must support that that guilt applies to each and every parent who have an underage daughter who ends up pregnant. They took all the children and yet they do not even claim that all of the children were abused or harmed. Are we now going to vilify a religion because we don't agree with what they believe even before we have any proof of wrong doing??? Are we willing to castrate parents of their parental rights even before an allegation of abuse or harm has been made??? This thing totally stinks from any point of view that accepts that we are a nation ruled by laws. This whole situation is a knee jerk reaction that was caused by a lie. People need to start asking themselves the quest of why did the local authorities believe this lie without any attempt of verification. It seems to me that they just couldn't wait to get into that place. If someone called in a lie about how you were treating you children wouldn't you want the local cops to check out the authenticity of that report before the took you to court and took your children away?????
I hate the thought of child rape, it would be a capital crime. I think religious zealots are dangerous. I do support justice. Justice under our laws should be the right of every person mo matter if we agree with their religion of not.