Posted on 04/20/2008 6:09:13 PM PDT by Soliton
Ben Stein was just on Fox News with Geraldo. He was asked If ID versus Evolution was a "left, right thing". He responded,"No, It's an atheist versus a non-believer thing". Stein inadvertantly admitted that ID is a religious argument, not science!
Perhaps, Ben Stein will use some of the money he earns from his movie to donate even more money to the Al Frankin for U.S. Senate Campaign.
Agreed. It seems silly to blame Darwinism or Christianity for what predated both.
The false notion that the Jews killed Jesus is probably the origin of the history of the Christians antipathy toward the Jew, but it was never at the command of God. Augustine through to Calvin and farther have blood on their hand, and not only Jewish, but that of people who had a different understanding of Biblical Truth. That cannot be papered over.
I agree, again. However, it does seem that anti-semitism was entrenched in mainstream Christianity for centuries until fairly recently. When would you date such a change, and which Sects led the way?
However, in terms of shear volumn, Hitler is only eclipsed by Stallin and Mao.
True. They had the technology - mass communication, rail systems, etc. - and a large population under their rule.
——Is it your understanding of human history that such acts, along with genocide, were not practiced prior to Darwin?——
While you directed your inquiry to Texas Songwriter, I hope my interjection is not too forward.
I stated that such acts were included in history before Darwin in a directive to Texas Songwriter, these are well documented.
How many contemporary leaders were quoting ancient text to promote genocide? Genocide may have gone the way of the dirigible if not for contemporaries providing new excuses for it.
Yes, such acts have been widespread and common throughout human history.
How many contemporary leaders were quoting ancient text to promote genocide?
I'm not sure whether Hitler ever quoted from the Bible. He certainly referenced events in it. Also, he may have cited Norse or other mythology.
As an interesting side note, some of the Khmer Rouge may have converted:
Genocide may have gone the way of the dirigible if not for contemporaries providing new excuses for it.
I could just as credibly say that anti-semitism may have done the same, had Christianity not provided excuses for it. Seems to me that either both of the preceeding are true, or neither are true.
It is more credible to believe that long-established human behavior would continue, rather than cease. IMO.
You are a very large chemical molecule consisting of nothing more than protons, neutrons and electrons. Evolution has configured your particles in such a way that they can store information like silicon atoms do in a computer. The information you contain is called "memes". Love, Self awareness, and "murder is wrong" are good examples of memes. Memes evolve and are passed on to the next generation just like genes. If you have any proof that you contain anything else, please supply it and I will change my mind.
If he made any money from this dud, It can't be much. It won't earn back it's marketing budget, let alone its production costs. Hopefully for Franken and Stein, (Frankenstein!) Ben was paid a salary and not just part of the gross.
>>You are a very large chemical molecule consisting of nothing more than protons, neutrons and electrons...If you have any proof that you contain anything else, please supply it and I will change my mind.<<
I just said that I can’t prove it. Maybe if you posted in a more moe appropriate way it would demonstrate that you are able to read.
You have just made a statement of what you believe without any proof BTW.
I may look into it farther when I have time. For the moment, I’m skeptical. The theory posits that all of the geological history that was assumed to have taken billions of years actually happened in a matter of days. Supposedly the splitting up of Pangea into the current continental configuration also happened in this same time period. That means we’re talking about continental plate drift on the order of tens or hundreds of miles per day, and all of the associated seismic and volcanic activity that goes with it. That, combined with the flood is supposed to have produced conditions that killed, sorted, and fossilized all of the life we see evident in the fossil record and all the sedimentary rock in a matter of days, while still allowing for the survival of people and a collection of animals in a wooden boat on the surface, and the survival of every species of aquatic plant and animal, freshwater and saltwater, still in existence today in the same ocean where this was taking place.
Most likely they are chain smoking moo-moo wearers who love watching re-runs of The West Wing tossing amen’s at Jeb Bartlett’s view of the world!
I agree. That's why I think requiring a young earth or denying evolution is dangerous to faith. I'm not suggesting faith be unreasoned either, just that one recognize the consequences of adamantly requiring a certain scientific outcome.
I have learned here that not only does evolution have to be false for some people to retain their faith, but sub atomic physics has to allow for radioactive decay time constants to be, well, not constant.
My simpleton understanding of Christianity is that salvation requires accepting Jesus. I don't recall reading that salvation requires the earth be young and evolution be false. But, I haven't studied every chapter and verse.
there is no real conflict between science and the existence of god. That is why you have then ubiquitously everwhere. Doctors, who have a christian faith, do not sit there and pray out an apendix, bypass operation, or transplant.
What we are having now that that UNLESS you believe a certain way regarding the divine, the effete elites want to preclude you from ANY higher education. No soup for you!
Faith is defined in Hebrews 11. It has nothing to do with “believing the unbelievable.” And faith “that can not be proved” is completly opposite to the faith described in Scipture.
Faith is hearing from God, and living your life based on what He said/says, even though AT THAT MOMENT, you cannot independently verify the objective reality of what He is saying. Faith is demonstrating trust without violating reason. The result of faith is the reward of receiving what God said He will do/give as a result of trusting in Him. Much of this “proof” occurs on a daily basis, like when Peter walked on the water, or an individual is healed from an incurable disease (happens all the time). And much occurs in eternity.
People who have biblical faith have heard the voice of God and are acting on what they have heard “because they consider Him faithful who promised.”
Any other kind of “faith” is not biblical.
So you don’t believe in demons? Or angels? Or that what the Bible calls “the rulers of the darkness of this world” would have any place in influencing how men think of and treat “scientific” information.
Why don’t you just “frame the issue” so that everyone must accept your presuppositions and be “forced” to accept only the conclusions seen through your “frame.”
You have personally, literally heard the voice of God?
"Faith" is an english word that didn't exist when Hebrews was written. It has a definition. It's in the dictionary, not the Bible.
freedom_forge said:
My simpleton understanding of Christianity is that salvation requires accepting Jesus. I don’t recall reading that salvation requires the earth be young and evolution be false. But, I haven’t studied every chapter and verse.
Oh you’re right Freedom_forge;
Accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior is what makes you a Christian.
And please know my rant I’m about to make isn’t at you but to all the parents out there.
I know...Mom & Dad are out there working hard trying to make ends meet, but your kids are the most beautiful, wonderful gifts’ you’ll have & the time with them goes way to quick!
But I have to ask why are you allowing the schools to brainwash your kids?
From the 1960’s every trace of God/Jesus has been chased out of our kids schools and replaced with a fairy tale... called evolution...that’s claimed to be science.
The kids aren’t even allowed to hear there may be another theory of how this world and the huge universe came about, and “us”. We can’t even add a tiny little sticker to their text books. The 10 commandments can’t even be posted.
Oh no we can’t allow the kids to hear they aren’t animals...they must believe it’s “survial of the fittess”
So the kids believe the lie and act like animals...as they beat each other up or do a school shooting, or steal, or do drugs.
They get taught how to have sex from school instead of learning to save yourself for that one special person & then the world sits back and says....My, oh my, 1 out of every 4 teens has a sexual disease. Well...Duh.
What business does schools have teaching sex when the kids can’t even read or write when they get out?
Tell your schools to get back to the basic’s and quit the social engineering...caused they sure have messed up a couple of generations of kids.
So let me ask everyone...if kids don’t get to hear anything about God/Jesus at home...or at school...and if they don’t go to a church...they don’t think they need to behave because they don’t have to account to anyone.
Mom & Dad maybe you’ve had a bitter experience at a church or it was “dead” and you didn’t get anything out of it somewhere along the line, so you decided to turn your backs on anything that even remotely sound’s like religion to you. I did the same thing at one time.
You think you don’t need God in your lives because your doing just fine without Him.
But I want you to look around at all the flowers and the trees, all the beautiful animals we have that surround us everyday...the sky...the universe.
All this didn’t happen by chance...God did it all. And as beautiful as Earth is God made a far more awesome place for us to live for all eternity.
Has anyone looked at the pictures of the Galaxy through the Hubble Telescope...wow...awesome!
And somewhere beyond that beautiful Galaxy there’s a place called Heaven...it’s a real place just like Earth is a real place...with green grass, flowers, fruit trees with each tree having 12 different types of fruit on it, blue skys, and pure clear water.
Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone.
2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”
8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 22
1 Then the angel showed me a river with the water of life, clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 It flowed down the center of the main street. On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month.
And if you decide to make Heaven your “home” you are going to have a beautiful flesh & bone body just like Jesus has only this body is built to last forever...just think..no more aches & pains.
1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of the Dead
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.
14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.
19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
The Resurrection Body
35But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55”Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
Just like you all love your kids...God loves all of His kids too (ALL OF US). Can you imagine giving up one of your kids to die a horrible death...just so some unworthy sinners like us could make Heaven their “home”? That’s real LOVE!!!
God doesn’t want any of you lost...He made sure we got the Bible just like He wanted us to. And He allows each one of us to decide where we want to live forever...Heaven or Hell.
Yes Hell is a real place too, and if that’s where you decide you want to go...God will let you go for all eternity...with tears in His eyes.
BIBLE=Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
Please tell your kids about what Jesus did for them.
Romans 10:
Salvation Is for Everyone
5 For Moses writes that the law’s way of making a person right with God requires obedience to all of its commands.
6 But faith’s way of getting right with God says, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will go up to heaven’ (to bring Christ down to earth).
7 And don’t say, ‘Who will go down to the place of the dead’ (to bring Christ back to life again).”
8 In fact, it says,
“The message is very close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart.”
And that message is the very message about faith that we preach:
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.
11 As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”
12 Jew and Gentile[f] are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him.
13 For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?
15 And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? That is why the Scriptures say, “How beautiful are the feet of messengers who bring good news!”
16 But not everyone welcomes the Good News, for Isaiah the prophet said, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
17 So faith comes from hearing, that is, hearing the Good News about Christ.
18 But I ask, have the people of Israel actually heard the message? Yes, they have:
“The message has gone throughout the earth, and the words to all the world.”
Jesus is coming back very, very soon!!! Keep Looking up!!!
Yes.
OK. You can substitute the greek word “pistis” where I use the English word “faith.”
I was simply trying to substantively address your definitions of “faith”, by pointing you to the biblical usage of the word we translate to “faith” in English translations, or “fe” in Spanish translations, etc.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.