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Forget It. It's Chinatown...
Big Lizards ^ | 04.13.08 | Sachi

Posted on 04/13/2008 10:09:15 AM PDT by Dr. Marten

The most iconic photograph from the riots attending the torch-bearing ceremony, the one that has every tongue wagging, is surely this one: A Tibetan supporter violently assaulting a wheelchair-bound woman carrying the torch through Paris.

This one picture came to symbolize the heartless violence of the Tibetan protesters, thus justifying, in many people's minds, the paramilitary troops that China sent to harass, beat, and brutalize the protesters in other countries -- from France and London to the United States to South America:



Chinese Attacks Wheelchair Torch Bearer

Violent protester attacks wheelchair-bound torch bearer.

Note especially the bandana this vicious thug wears; it's clearly the Tibetan flag, as you can see from the image below:



Tibetan flag

Tibetan flag

For contrast, here is the Chinese Communist flag; the two are quite distinct, and you cannot mistake one for the other:



Chinese flag

Chinese flag

Rather like the infamous Mohammed al-Durrah photograph, used by the Palestinians to turn the world against Israel by claiming they shot a young boy, this photograph began to turn the world against the victims of Red China's brutal occupation and subsequent attempt at slow genocide.

But wait; that's an odd comparison to make, isn't it? For the al-Durrah footage is now known to be a fake; careful investigation has shown that the Israelis could not possibly have shot the child from the positions they occupied. He had to have been shot by Palestinians -- if he were shot at all.

So the video footage is infamous mostly because it is a clumsy fake, one of the first instances of "Pallywood."

Surely that can't be case with this photo of the Tibetan protester and the lady in the wheelchair; after all, we see him clearly -- and the camera never lies.

There are several Japanese-language blogs I read that are written by Chinese living in Japan. (This may seem like a detour, but it's not, I promise.) I believe the authors are mostly Japanese nationals, but they still have strong ties to China. And of course, they're usually anti-Communist... which is why they don't live in China in the first place.

Mr. Ching is one of them. He often introduces events happening in the Chinese blogosphere.

China has not broadcast any images to the Chinese people of what they are doing in Tibet; but according to Mr. Ching, the Communists did broadcast the image of that wheelchair-bound woman being attacked by a Tibetan protester. A number of Chinese bloggers (in China) were outraged by the attack; they started to look into the identity of the attacker. In the course of their investigation, they found something shocking...

They stumbled across some other photographs: pictures of the attacker, clearly that same Tibetan protester (still wearing his Tibetan-flag bandana), arriving earlier for the festivities -- and marching in the company of a number of Chinese carrying Chinese flags:



Fake Tibetan -- actually Chinese -- with friends

Our protester with his actual friends; note the flags.

Is it possible that our "protester" friend is in fact -- a Chinese agent provacateur? That would require us to believe that the Chinese Communists could be so devious and duplicitous as to commit an atrocity, just to blame it on the Tibetan protesters and arouse retroactive justification for the crackdown by the Chinese paramilitaries we talked about in an earlier post.

Bah. That would just be -- too Clintonian.

The Chinese bloggers were still outraged; but when the truth became obvious, they switched targets. Once they posted the photos, and readers began to share the images with their non-blogging friends, public opinion in China also turned around. Now, according to Mr. Ching, Chinese citizens are inflamed by their own government's conspiratorial manipulation of public sentiment.

The plot backfired; and now the Chinese blogosphere is going into overtime. For example, there is also this:



Chinese soldiers holding fake Tibetan monks' robes

Chinese soldiers holding fake Tibetan monks' robes... I wonder why?

This is a group of Chinese soldiers in Tibet. I can't say whether they're in the same paramilitary group as the "jogging-suit Janissaries;" but for some peculiar reason, each of these Chinese soldiers holds in his hands an ersatz Tibetan monk's robe.

Now, far be it from mere bloggers (on either side of the Pacific Rim) to make accusations against the noble fighting men of Red China. But it does occur to us that much of the armed violence committed by China against the Tibetan monks has been justified on the basis that Tibetan monks -- in their robes -- have been "attacking" Chinese civilians in Tibet.

Of course, just because a fellow is caught outside a house at midnight carrying burglary tools doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a burglar. But can anyone think of an innocent reason why a company of Chinese soldiers should each have a Tibetan monk's robe, when they are trying to suppress protest by a bunch of robed Tibetan monks?

China is beginning to discover what Americans -- Dan Rather in particular -- learned to their chagrin some years ago: We live in the age of new media; and in this epoch, we know that cameras lie all the time. They lie about the "death" of a Palestinian boy; they lie about exploding trucks and fraudulent Air National Guard memos... and they can most certainly lie about who really attacked a beautiful, young girl in a wheelchair.

But those infernal recording devices have two edges; where one photo lies, another can reveal the truth.

Truth to the Left is like Kryptonite to Superman. All the lackeys, minions, and lickspittles of Hu Jintao will never be able to live down this blow to their carefully constructed public image -- not just the violence itself, but the repugnant way they have tried to shift the blame to the very victims of that violence.

I wonder; are they starting to regret getting the Olympics after all?

 


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 2008olympics; boycottchina; boycottolympics; china; olympics; tibet

1 posted on 04/13/2008 10:09:15 AM PDT by Dr. Marten
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: HighRoadToChina; maui_hawaii; srm913; Free the USA; rightwing2; borghead; ChaseR; soccer8; ...

Tibetan Protester or PLA Agent?


3 posted on 04/13/2008 10:11:51 AM PDT by Dr. Marten
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To: the invisib1e hand

Sarcasm or didn’t read the entire post?


4 posted on 04/13/2008 10:14:38 AM PDT by aft_lizard (born conservative...I chose to be a republican)
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To: Dr. Marten

Very interesting.


5 posted on 04/13/2008 10:20:37 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Voting CONSERVATIVE in memory of 5 children killed by illegals 2/17/08 and 2/19/ 08)
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To: Dr. Marten
Definition:

mapes - v. - to fabricate or to assign undue weight to evidence tending to support a preferred narrative

rather - v. - to ignore or to assign inadequate weight to evidence tending to refute a preferred narrative

6 posted on 04/13/2008 10:29:08 AM PDT by BitBucket
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To: Dr. Marten

“That would require us to believe that the Chinese Communists could be so devious and duplicitous as to commit an atrocity, just to blame it on the Tibetan protesters “

If you’re familiar with Sun Tzu’s “Art of War”, deception is at the top of his list.


7 posted on 04/13/2008 10:39:38 AM PDT by G Larry (HILLARY CARE = DYING IN LINE!)
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To: aft_lizard
I'm sorry, to what are you referring?
8 posted on 04/13/2008 10:44:36 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand ( If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you...)
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To: Dr. Marten

9 posted on 04/13/2008 10:54:08 AM PDT by steelyourfaith
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To: Dr. Marten
Truth to the Left is like Kryptonite to Superman. All the lackeys, minions, and lickspittles of Hu Jintao will never be able to live down this blow to their carefully constructed public image -- not just the violence itself, but the repugnant way they have tried to shift the blame to the very victims of that violence.

BUMP! The Chicoms are so BUSTED!

Of course, I don't believe our own MSM has breathed a word of this debunking of an atrocity...

The charitable view would be simple embarassment: that once they have stuck their necks out and bought into it...they don't dare admit they were suckered.

The more likely true explanation is that we have had increasingly hard-core Stalinist Marxists in the editorial rooms (as shown by Obama's kid-gloves treatment) censoring, spinning and controlling the stories reported.

Thank God for the New Media.

10 posted on 04/13/2008 11:46:25 AM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Dr. Marten

Are you plain stupid or just intellectually dishonest? This is as ridiculous as those 9-11 was an inside job claims.

As others have pointed out in the photo proves absolutely nothing because all it shows is a single path to the torch area actually being shared by the public with both pro-China and pro-Tibetan protesters.

The second photographs are actually PAP milling about a movie set, film extras for a Michelle Yeoh movie several years ago.

The problem with all the Free Tibet claims that the rioting was actually all a false flag operation by the Chinese is that it is so simple to disprove but no one bothers to think. PAP security personnel cannot speak Tibetan, no Chinese cadres speak Tibetan. It’s impossible to incite and direct a riot if you cannot communicate with other rioters. All first hand accounts by independent observers present confirm that the rioters were Tibetans.

Fact of the matter is, the Tibetans themselves are not angels, they are humans with all the gamut of human passions and failings. However since their modus operandi relies on a beatific image of innocent shangri-la pacifists, they will obfuscate, lie, and deny when facts themselves reveal them to be just like the rest of us.


11 posted on 04/13/2008 1:14:42 PM PDT by cmdjing
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To: cmdjing
The second photographs [sic] are actually PAP milling about a movie set, film extras for a Michelle Yeoh movie several years ago.

Okay, so Prove it.

12 posted on 04/13/2008 1:49:02 PM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Paul Ross

Here you go, according to the website of the International Campaign for Tibet no less, one of the Free Tibet groups though not the only one.

http://www.savetibet.org/news/newsitem.php?id=1275

And I quote

“In recent weeks images showing soldiers in Tibet carrying monks’ robes have been distributed widely across the internet, with some commentators claiming they provide evidence that Chinese soldiers disguised themselves as Buddhist monks during unrest in Lhasa last month. ICT does not regard the images as credible evidence of this claim. Similar images, of soldiers carrying monks’ robes in the Jokhang, are in ICT’s possession, taken during a film shoot in Lhasa which involved soldiers appearing as monks. These current images are likely to be the same - in recent years soldiers have been hired to play monks in both Chinese propaganda movies and in mainstream foreign films - for instance, Michelle Yeoh’s ‘The Touch’, shot in Lhasa in 2001.”

The problem is that it is pretty evident that this photograph has been mis-represented, repeatedly. Despite it being not what it purports to be, some people of dubious intellectual honesty keep repeating it nonetheless.


13 posted on 04/13/2008 2:05:05 PM PDT by cmdjing
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To: Dr. Marten

Very interesting find.


14 posted on 04/14/2008 6:47:28 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: cmdjing
Ehron Asher, the source seems to be the actual source of the ICT's story...and he has the dates distinctly different. Not 2001, but 2003.

Especially interesting to me, is that Asher (while claiming to be a Buddhist) also seems to be a gratuitous defamer against Gordon Thomas as a "racist bigot" and other inflammatory derogation more consistent with marxist rhetorical attacks.

Based on your linked story, the picture apparently surfaced only in March of this year, according to the ICT itself....and now they are alleged to be of dated origin.

15 posted on 04/14/2008 9:03:54 AM PDT by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
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To: Dr. Marten
Tibetan Protester or PLA Agent?

You called it!

Agents Provocateur? ["Tibetan supporter" who attacked torch bearer may be Chinese agent]

That isn't the only instance of PRC provocateurs. It seems they started the violence in Lhasa which began this whole "crackdown" campaign.

Chinese Regime Implicated in Staging Violence in Lhasa—UPDATED

16 posted on 04/16/2008 12:38:12 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Beijing 2008. Moscow 1980 Olympic Games for murdering regimes.)
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To: Paul Ross
Especially interesting to me, is that Asher (while claiming to be a Buddhist)...

Well put. I am a Tibetan Buddhist and when I ran across Asher's blog doing research on an e-mail forward of the article mentioned I sent it to my teacher for comment. He guffawed and said he discredits himself in two sentences. Here they are...

I am a Buddhist practioner in the Tibetan tradition. I have been a social activist.

The second sentence, in essence, says "I am not a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner."

I am a political activist but the basis for that is that I'm an American not that I am a Buddhist. I also consider being a political activist a quite different thing than being a "social activist" which is just double speak for utopianist. Any serious first year student should be able to grasp the concept of samsara well enough to know that a utopian state is not possible. If it were then everything the Buddha taught would be entirely false in which case it would be kind of stupid to practice Buddhism. His little screed about "the truth" is rather enlightening too after he turns around and insults people he has obviously never listened to (Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh) and relies on his own unsourced innuendo and guilt by association to "refute" the article in question.

17 posted on 04/16/2008 12:58:21 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Beijing 2008. Moscow 1980 Olympic Games for murdering regimes.)
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To: TigersEye; Paul Ross

Greetings - this is Ehron Asher. I want to say first that I am not here to debate your politics. I am not here to insult, fight or be confrontational. We may have different beliefs, but we all share the human experience. I am only here on this site to address comments made here about me and my research on this topic, and to hopefully clear up some misstatements and misunderstandings.

Re: DATE OF THE PHOTO/FILM
Early in my research, I had arrived at 2003 as the date the photo was taken on the film set for “World Without Thieves”. This was given to me by several sources, including the Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Development, which used the image on the back cover of their 2003 Annual Report. Further research revealed a 2001 date - from the Chinese film “The Touch”. I updated this on my blog as soon as I learned it. This information has since been confirmed by the film’s CHINESE distribution company, as well as in a soon to be published interview with a PLA soldier who was in the film.

Re: GORDON THOMAS
Paul Ross — Your comment made me re-read what I wrote about Mr. Thomas. After reviewing it, I’ve come to the conclusion that some of my remarks about Mr.Thomas are indeed conjecture. I called him a racist, a bigot and a conspiracy theorist. Based on reading about 10 of his articles and lengthy excerpts and reviews of his books, including the one that claims China used bin Laden to assault the U.S. on 9/11 — I stand by my comment that he is a conspiracy theorist. However, I do not have any direct proof that he is a racist/bigot. I only have his association with the unashamedly anti-Zionist, Holocaust-denying American Free Press - including his keynote address at an anti-Zionist, white supremacist, holocaust-denying conference. But because I do not have any direct proof of him being a racist, it was unfair and unkind of me to say so. I will remove the racist/bigot name calling from my blog.

Re: INSULTING and NOT LISTENING
TigersEye: You stated that I insult people I have “obviously never listened to (Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh)”

1) How do you know that I have obviously never listened to Hannity or Limbaugh? Sorry, but you are wrong on that. Personally, I do not believe in ‘right’ or ‘left’. The Buddhist path is the middle way. I am open to listening to all sides - and fairly weighing all facts and opinions. For cryin out loud... consider what it is I have done here! I am a Tibetan Buddhist practioner, a supporter of the Tibetan ‘cause’... yet I have gone to great lengths to debunk an image that supports my own cause. Why? Because the truth itself is more important than whose ‘side’ the truth benefits.

Look, I am what you all would call a Liberal. I will be voting for a Democrat in November. But if I had been the person to discover that Hillary was not being truthful about that Bosnia trip, I would have done the same thing I have done with this photo/article. I would’ve called her on it. Not because I want to damage her campaign, but because she was not telling the truth. I’d do the same if it was Obama.

2) I absolutely did NOT insult Hannity, Limbaugh, et al... I simply listed them as being columnists for G2 Bulletin, World Net Daily and Canada Free Press. Here is a summation of what I wrote: The article originated on “G2 Bulletin”, a subscription only subsidiary of World Net Daily(TRUE) Both are right-wing, conservative,(TRUE) muckracking, rumor mills (TRUE, IN MY OPINION). Canada Free Press is also a right-wing uber-conservative web-publication,(TRUE) that has legally gotten in trouble in the past for getting caught with false stories(TRUE). G2, WND and CFP’s other columnists include: Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, the late Rev.Jerry Falwell, Dr. John Hagee, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Novak and Bill O’Rielly (ALL TRUE).

Re: GUILT BY ASSOC.
I slightly agree with your comment that I (in part) used ‘guilt by association’ to refute the article — and I’ve addressed this already above in my response to Paul Ross. However, I was generally not refuting the article. I was refuting the association of the content of the article with the photo... and the validity of the claim that British intel has satellite images that show PLA dressing as monks and starting the violence. In my opening statement I say that the reliability of the article is ‘questionable’, NOT untrue. I then go on to state that I do not doubt that the Chinese government is doing the things the article (and photo) claim. ‘Guilt by association’ was only one aspect of the puzzle which I offered as reasons to question the validity of the article. Most significantly, I show the response I received from the GCHQ (UK Government Communications Headquarters - the centre for Her Majesty’s Government’s Signal Intelligence activities), which clearly states that it is their firm policy to not confirm or deny inquiries on intelligence matters - and that to the Press Office’s knowledge, Mr.Thomas did not even contact the GCHQ prior to publishing the article about the GCHQ.

re: UNSOURCED INNUENDO
Regarding your comment that I rely on my own “unsourced innuendo”... I don’t know what you are referring to here, but I clearly state every single one of my sources. Other than calling Mr. Thomas a racist/bigot, there is nothing that I reported that was not sourced and confirmed.

5) To address the few attacks questioning my personal Buddhist beliefs and activism:

* There are 5 major branches of Christianity with approx 33,830 denominational families throughout the world. There are 11 denominations of Judaism. There are 3 main branches of Buddhism, each with a number of sects. All of the divisions within the individual faiths exist because of various doctrinal differences, differing interpretations of scripture, incorporation of local cultural traditions or beliefs.

* Along with the cultivation of profound philosophical insight, the development of an altruistic motivation lies at the heart of Tibetan Buddhism. This central teaching is that of the ‘Bodhisattva’ (meaning “Enlightened Existence” or “Wisdom Being”). (Similar to the idea of a saint, although it is attainable by anyone who aspires to it.)

Where in some schools of Buddhism, the goal is to attain individual enlightenment so that you can enter ‘Nirvana’, which ends the process of being reborn into the world where people suffer — the ‘Bodhisattva’ of the Tibetan school compassionately vows to not enter ‘Nirvana’ until all other beings cease to suffer. This vow is universal, nondiscriminatory, and passionate to the point where the individual is capable of dedicating his or her entire being for the benefit of other sentient beings.

The 8th century scripture “The Bodhisattva’s Way of Life” remains to this day the most influential texts for Tibetan Buddhists on the practice of this altruistic ideal. This verse exemplifies the practice: “For as long as space endures, For as long as sentient beings remain, May I too abide, And dispel the miseries of beings.”

* Buddhism has always been socially engaged, and the historical Buddha was a social/political activist and rebel - his monastic order was a ‘Radical social intervention’ - Born a Prince in the Hindu upper-caste, he was distraught when he discovered the suffering and inequality of the lower-caste. As a teacher, he rebelled against the exclusiveness of the priests & upper crust (Brahmins) of his day. Rather than continue to use Sanskrit, the language used by priests which was only understood by the upper-echelon of royalty and the wealthy, he chose to use a form of Pali - the ‘language of the people’ for his sermons. He strongly disapproved of the ritual sacrifices practiced by the Brahmins, as these often involved the slaughter of animals. Furthermore, the Buddha would teach that sacrifice should be seen as requiring personal effort in the form of good deeds such as acts of charity. Social reform was also spearheaded by the Buddha. He denounced all claims made by the Brahmins to be superior by virtue of their birth. The Buddha claimed that one became noble by deeds, not by birth. In a clear rejection of the caste system, the Buddha’s community was organized in a democratic manner, similar to the political system followed in the republican tribes. The monks used marked sticks when voting and a corporate decision was made if a resolution had been passed three times in the general assembly of Buddhist bhikkus (monks). And for the first time in world history, women were allowed to participate in monastic life.

A short, hardly comprehensive list of the Buddhas’ and his followers’ social reform and activism would have to include involvement in building bridges, hospices, veterinary hospitals, no-interest loan banks, orphanages, wells, vegetarianism, anti-capital punishment, opposition to untouchability, support for widows, education, tax and debt relief, roads, and pacifism, all of which occur in pre-modern Buddhism. Yes, the Buddha was an extremely liberal lefty. But again, let’s not make this a debate about whether or not you agree with the Buddha’s reforms/political stance.

“The primary Buddhist position on social action is one of total activism, an unswerving commitment to complete self- transformation and complete world-transformation. Thus, it is squarely in the center of all Buddhist traditions to bring basic principles to bear on actual contemporary problems to develop ethical, even political, guidelines for action.” - Robert Thurman

If there are any additional questions about sources or anything else, please just let me know and I am happy to oblige.

May all beings — conservatives and liberals, Democrats and Republicans, Tibetans and Chinese — all beings on this planet — always know peace, offer love and respect, be kind, and have happiness and freedom from oppression.

And may all beings benefit from the the truth.

with sincere respect,

Ehron Asher

sources: Robert Thurman, Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist studies at Columbia U (www.bobthurman.com/essay3.shtml); World Christian Encyclopedia; Adherents.com; ReligionFacts.com; Wikipedia; Shantideva’s Guide to the Bodhisattva’s Way of Life; Intl Hearld Tribune (www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/01/opinion/edweiner.php)


18 posted on 04/20/2008 3:40:20 AM PDT by dharma-holder (A response from Ehron Asher)
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To: dharma-holder
Greetings - this is Ehron Asher. I want to say first that I am not here to debate your politics.

IOWs you want what you say to be accepted without question. And then you go on to make declarative statements about politics and dharma and in your own words explain how dharma is inseparable from politics. That is a contradictory, arrogant, self-serving and inherently dishonest attitude.

After reviewing it, I’ve come to the conclusion that some of my remarks about Mr.Thomas are indeed conjecture. I called him a racist, a bigot and a conspiracy theorist. ... However, I do not have any direct proof that he is a racist/bigot. ... But because I do not have any direct proof of him being a racist, it was unfair and unkind of me to say so.

More than that it conforms to three of the ten non-virtues as expounded on by Padmasambhava. Telling lies, divisive talk and idle gossip. (pp 40 Dakini Teachings) You also have no direct proof that he's a conspiracy theorist just your opinion. Aiyeeeeeeeeeee!

I will remove the racist/bigot name calling from my blog.

A little Vajrasattva might not hurt either. Once that energy is out there it's out there. ;^)

1) How do you know that I have obviously never listened to Hannity or Limbaugh? Sorry, but you are wrong on that.

Given the obvious association you try to establish and attach to them it is clear to me that you don't know what Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh are about. You may have listened to them but you haven't heard them.

From your blog:

3) So, the article originated on "G2 Bulletin", a subscription only subsidiary of World Net Daily (WND), which are both right-wing, conservative, rumor mills. (a subjective opinion)

Canada Free Press (CFP) is also a right-wing uber-conservative web-publication, that has legally gotten in trouble in the past for getting caught with false stories. (Also a subjective opinion. Having glanced through some article titles at CFP I would characterize it as more populist than "uber-conservative." They have articles that range across the spectrum. You don't name any false articles either so that is an unsubstantiated claim that can't be checked.)

G2, WND and CFP’s other columnists include: Ann Coulter, Pat Buchanan, the late Rev.Jerry Falwell, Dr. John Hagee, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Robert Novak and Bill O’Rielly.

It is clear that your intention is to support your claim that CFP and WND are unreliable sources (A claim that is only true on a case-by-case basis. Like most publications they draw from many sources.) by naming these contributors thereby insinuating that they write falsehoods. Not being familiar with CFP until finding its name on your blog and not being a regular reader of WND I am unaware that any of them are contributers. They may be. But it is an association that proves nothing about their veracity or the veracity of those publications. It does demonstrate your leftist biases wherein you expect those associations to be enough to make your point. Having listened to Rush Limbaugh regularly since 1993 and many hours of Sean Hannity I know the point you are trying to make is false. I am also very familiar with Ann Coulter's writings and she is scrupulously honest and sources her hard information in painful detail.

Most significantly, I show the response I received from the GCHQ (UK Government Communications Headquarters - the centre for Her Majesty’s Government’s Signal Intelligence activities), which clearly states that it is their firm policy to not confirm or deny inquiries on intelligence matters - and that to the Press Office’s knowledge, Mr.Thomas did not even contact the GCHQ prior to publishing the article about the GCHQ.

Let's examine what you said on your blog about that.

8) An email to the GCHQ (UK Government Communications Headquarters - the centre for Her Majesty’s Government’s Signal Intelligence activities) which is the main focus of the article, questioning the validity of the article yielded this response from Alan Thompson, Press Officer at the GCHQ:

"Thank you for your email. It is GCHQ’s long-standing policy to respond that we are able to neither confirm nor deny in respect to enquiries on intelligence matters. I would simply add that I am not aware of Gordon Thomas making any approach to GCHQ prior to publishing on this subject; such an approach would invariably be directed through the Press Office. I hope that is of some help."

You are told that the policy is to "neither confirm nor deny in respect to enquiries on intelligence matters." Then you are told "I am not aware of Gordon Thomas making any approach to GCHQ prior to publishing on this subject;..." You prove nothing with this other than that GCHQ is telling you nothing. You have the policy as stated by their Press Secretary and his personal statement that he isn't aware of Gordon Thomas inquiring of GCHQ. Has it occurred to you that GT has contacts other than the Press Secretary? Or that the Press Secretary has no awareness of who talks to who by design? What you have there is a statement of nothing about nothing.

Personally, I do not believe in ‘right’ or ‘left’.

The biases you have displayed here contradict that assertion.

The Buddhist path is the middle way.

Which refers to the extremes of nihilism and eternalism which are personally held POVs. It is not an excuse to ignore the realities of samasara, relative reality, which is by its nature dualistic. The dharma is not about 'belief' it is about recognizing reality as it is. Right and left political philosophies exist in samsara whether you believe in them or not. Obviously you do have attachments to leftist ideology since you adhere to it without the discriminating wisdom of needing to substantiate your political views with critical analysis.

I am open to listening to all sides - and fairly weighing all facts and opinions. For cryin out loud... consider what it is I have done here! I am a Tibetan Buddhist practioner, a supporter of the Tibetan ‘cause’... yet I have gone to great lengths to debunk an image that supports my own cause. Why? Because the truth itself is more important than whose ‘side’ the truth benefits.

You are not open to hearing all sides. You began with the statement that you aren't here to debate. That is a direct statement of closed-offedness. It also ignores the fact that this is a political forum where debate is the primary activity and function. It is what it is. You also set out to do more than debunk that photo. Which you didn't conclusively do. You also set out to debunk the CFP/WND article and your only proof of that was based on innuendo and guilt by association. You speak of your primary motivation as "the truth" but your methods are overwhelmingly intellectually dishonest.

However, I was generally not refuting the article. I was refuting the association of the content of the article with the photo... and the validity of the claim that British intel has satellite images that show PLA dressing as monks and starting the violence.

The photo only accompanied the article as an attachment to an e-mail circulating with a pirated copy of the article. It did not accompany the CFP version of the article, which can be seen on a pirate website, and you provide no evidence that WND included the photo with the article and I can't/won't verify that one way or the other since I am not going to subscribe to WNDs G2 Bulletin. It is incumbent upon you to do that as it is your assertion now that it was your motivation. It is also your contention now that you only sought to discredit CFP and the author Gordon Thomas (through negative associations and unsubstantiated accusations) in order to disprove the false connotation the photo created by being circulated with the article. Which does not appear in the CFP version and, as far as anyone knows at this point, does not appear with the G2 Bulletin version.

This blogger does a good job of exposing your lackadaisical reporting methods.

As for being a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner; well whoop-de-friggin'-do! I am too and have been for ten years. Shall we whip out our malas and see whose is bigger? Unless you're a teacher (and I'll eat my mala if you are) then we are both students and it's a meaningless point for either of us to rest our political arguments on that fact. It is also a useless point to make any claims of purity of intent on that basis. If either of us had that what use would we have for taking the path?

5) To address the few attacks questioning my personal Buddhist beliefs and activism:

If you consider Buddhism to be a set of beliefs, especially if you are following the Diamond Vehicle, you do have problems.

All of the divisions within the individual faiths exist because of various doctrinal differences, differing interpretations of scripture, incorporation of local cultural traditions or beliefs.

The differences in the three vehicles is primarily one of approach not interpretation. Apparent contradictions between Hinayana, Mahayana and Vajrayana doctrines are matters of approach not fundamental disagreements as to meaning as is true in the doctrinal differences in various Christian sects for instance.

Your paragraphs on Buddhist view are entirely a Hinayana view and not particularly relevant to a tantric practitioner.

Yes, the Buddha was an extremely liberal lefty. But again, let’s not make this a debate about whether or not you agree with the Buddha’s reforms/political stance.

First you make an absolute statement about the Buddha and, again, you set down the condition that it shouldn't be debated. I can assure you that my teacher would debate that whether you wanted to hear it or not. He has bluntly said "It is not possible to hold liberal views and practice dharma." Since dharma practice requires taking responsibility for one's actions as the first act of the path it shouldn't be surprising given that all liberal ideology today is based on a culture of victimhood. Only a little scrutiny reveals that virtually every liberal "cause" is based on blaming someone or something else for the negative conditions one finds themselves in. Racism, sexism and classism are the so-called "causes" of hatred, social status and poverty. Instead of encouraging personal responsibility liberalism relies on blaming others and offering the solutions of wealth redistribution, racial quotas/preferences and abortion. Nothing could be further from the Dharma than that. Nothing!

sources: Robert Thurman, Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist studies at Columbia U (www.bobthurman.com/essay3.shtml);

Never heard of him. Was/is he a practitioner? In strict Tibetan Buddhist tradition I rely on my teacher as my primary guide to dharma. In accordance with his guidance and instruction I place complete trust in Padmashambhava, Dudjom Rimpoche and other teachers within that lineage that he gives his imprimatur to. While the teachings of Shakyamuni are in no way incorrect, are indeed the basis of all other teachings, and the Hinayana vehicle is likewise without fault, they cannot be used by a tantric practitioner in practice or in action as they require holding an inferior view (which should be understood by a Buddhist practitioner as meaning lower or introductory not as in with fault or error.) As a matter of approach the Vajrayana view involves making no distinctions. As a matter of approach the Hinayana view is all about making distinctions.

I won't argue that many Tibetan Buddhists, especially western students and teachers, think they have some dharmic duty to change the world. But that is a dualistic view based on making distinctions. It may be entirely appropriate for a Hinayana or Theravedan Buddhist to practice in that way. How can a Vajrayana student approach the Great Perfection in that way? How can you descend with the view if your view is in error to begin with?

Happy Sojong! (for the benefit of the 99.99% of FReepers who have no idea what Sojong is it is the once monthly practice on full moon of remorse, repentance, confession and purification.)

In sum you have provided thin evidence that a photo attached to a circulating e-mail, never actually published with the article, is not what you claim others intended it to be believed to be. What purpose you have served other than to create confusion that didn't previously exist and give apologists for the PRC more fodder to cast doubt on the Tibetan cause is beyond me. They have certainly appeared here on FR and used your blog to do just that.

Tashi delek!

19 posted on 04/20/2008 3:01:36 PM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Beijing 2008. Moscow 1980 Olympic Games for murdering regimes.)
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