Posted on 09/22/2007 8:03:54 AM PDT by beltfed308
ST. GEORGE — A police officer who was recorded berating a motorist earlier this month has lost his job.
The board of aldermen voted 5-0, with one member absent, to fire Sgt. James Kuehnlein on Monday. The vote was cast in a session closed to the public and wasn't announced until Wednesday, when a notice was posted at the City Hall of this tiny south St. Louis County community.
In a video that got wide viewership on the Internet, Kuehnlein taunts and threatens motorist Brett Darrow, 20, sometimes shouting and using profanity, after questioning him in a commuter lot near Interstate 55. Darrow posted the footage of the Sept. 7 incident on the web.
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
You ever consider that he [or others] had been 'messed with' before?
-- Cops that mess with people are on the way out, thanks to recorders, and the 'agitators' they enable. -- And rational people won't miss that type of police work.
my point with this kid is that he makes a game out of it and uses a police scanner to go to places he knows he will get stopped so he can wise-off to cops. but, in his mind, the cops made him what he is.
Exactly. Bad cops "made him what he is" by messing with him. -- Now, he's "messing" with them.
Dangerous 'game'; - on both sides.
I can understand the kids motives.
- But why do cops want to 'mess with' citizens?
Yes,,
Not liking what I am saying or the way I said it is just not the same as refuting it.
Show me in the Law where it says an officer cannot use subtrifuge and deception to gain information..
You cannot...
The Officer did not actually bring false charges against the kid..
Get a clue... What he did was wrong by my values and yours..
At the same time there is a need to gather intelligence when acting as a LEO to try to ferret out what is going on.
Further there is no law prohibiting it... If there was he would have been charged with a crime by now..
Firing the Officer is just a CYA exercise by the Department Heads not addressing what is a systemic problem..
I think pretty much everyone knows this sort of thing goes on all the time..
Now either it is wrong and should be made illegal.. Or it is OK and this Officer should be reinstated.
A while back Plain Clothes Officers followed someone from a Bar and that person ultimately wound up being shot to death.
The Argument was he did not know they were LEO’s
The problem could be solved with a policy change allowing Plain Clothed Officers to arrest only in extraordinary circumstances especially at night..
That has not happened
The problem here will also be glossed over unless we change the law to change the behavior..
Under the current law he did nothing to justify being fired.
I am not saying the Officer is right.. But he committed no crime and did nothing that does not happen every day..
You know that I suspect.
But instead of changing the law you go after some Officer doing on the street what is not all that uncommon..
Therefore the message is “Its ok to do this just don’t get caught”
What kind of message does that send to LEOs?
Address my points not my grammar please.
W
The town of St. George covers one-fifth of a square mile. A square mile is 640 acrers. That would make it 128 acres. Not a really big farm or city.
I understand your position and agree with much of it.
But how about some simple civility? The lot was empty. There was nothing to break into. Nothing to steal. How about a simple, "hey, how ya doing, everything OK tonight?" "Hey, you take care" That could have been it! End of story....
Check on his welfare, ask him if everything is OK, and go get some coffee. That would have been the end of it.
Ya see that is part of the whole problem today. There is little civility, or brotherhood among Americans. It's "us vs them" attitude. Half the country no longer trusts government or those that enforce government law. Government has become too intrusive, too big, too punitive...Isn't this why we parted company with the British?
I don’t post here very much, I’m really more of a lurker.
However, I make my living traveling around the country, and if I had just a dime for every time I’ve had to deal with some small town kings$hit cop, well, i could retire. I know that there are criminals in the world who take advantage of other people, but most people aren’t criminals, and too bad for this cop that he forgot that. This reeks of power trip.
Ping. A nice result.
thnx for the update, bookmark
“If the cop was doing nothing wrong, he would have nothing to fear.”
Sorry, that line only works one way, like when they want to search your vehicle without probable cause.
Maniac
Now that smiley is too funny.
I surrender lol
W
“Yes,,
Not liking what I am saying or the way I said it is just not the same as refuting it.”
Tone and the manner and language used are important. We are not refuting but saying the behavior that is bullying is unprofessional. I don’t tolerate bullies and no way should society tolerate cops that are bullies.
“Show me in the Law where it says an officer cannot use subterfuge and deception to gain information..
You cannot...”
It is well-established case law that police can lie and use subterfuge. That is the reason that refusal to give information and questioning the police on what is the charge is correct. That is the correct way to preserve the constitutional rights of self-incrimination. Courts have decided that people are under no obligation to tell the police what they are doing or planning of doing. They do have to provide their name and license if they are driving.
“The Officer did not actually bring false charges against the kid..”
The cop did not commit the illegal act of bringing false charges. But he did threaten to do so, which is against police policy when there is no reason to suspect the person of a crime. It is no crime to pull into a parking lot and stop at 2 am.
“Get a clue... What he did was wrong by my values and yours..
At the same time there is a need to gather intelligence when acting as a LEO to try to ferret out what is going on.”
Agreed and the act of gathering intelligence would be to inquire what Darrow was doing and to get his license and registration. However Darrow is under no obligation to provide the reason he parked in the lot. The police then run the tag and license to see the status of the driver. If no outstanding warrants then the police have no right to detain or arrest Darrow. Yelling and threatening to lay false charges are bullying and the cop had no reason to act that way. Darrow had not committed a crime.
“Further there is no law prohibiting it... If there was he would have been charged with a crime by now..”
The cop did not commit a crime, but to be fired does not require the employee to commit a crime. Police departments can fire an employee for violating policy and behaving inappropriately or abusing his authority.
“Firing the Officer is just a CYA exercise by the Department Heads not addressing what is a systemic problem..”
Since the officer has stated that he could lay false charges to Darrow, opens up every arrest and ticket he has made to investigation that he falsified charges. Expensive for his department and city. Reason enough to fire the cop.
“I think pretty much everyone knows this sort of thing goes on all the time..”
If it happens all the time, then it is time to get rid of all these cops, since they are in the wrong line of work. Society cannot afford thugs and bullies to be the police since that increases hostility and suspicion in society and leads to a police state. People who have power over the populace should be screened that they not be abusive. Once found that they do abuse their authority, then they should be fired. These are the bad apples that infect the rest of a police department. This leads others to think that is the correct way to behave.
“Now either it is wrong and should be made illegal.. Or it is OK and this Officer should be reinstated.”
Lots of things are wrong that are not illegal. Are you stating that a police officer has to break the law to be fired? Do we all have to break the law in order for our employer to fires us?
“A while back Plain Clothes Officers followed someone from a Bar and that person ultimately wound up being shot to death.
The Argument was he did not know they were LEO’s
The problem could be solved with a policy change allowing Plain Clothed Officers to arrest only in extraordinary circumstances especially at night..
That has not happened
The problem here will also be glossed over unless we change the law to change the behavior..”
There is no need to change the law. All the police department has to do is change the policy. No need for state legislatures to enact laws to make police department policies.
“Under the current law he did nothing to justify being fired.”
Being fired does not require someone to break the law.
“I am not saying the Officer is right.. But he committed no crime and did nothing that does not happen every day..”
If it happens every day, it needs to stop and those that do should go into another line of employment.
“You know that I suspect.
But instead of changing the law you go after some Officer doing on the street what is not all that uncommon..”
Again don’t need a law, just standards and policies that I am sure the police have, just as most companies have for their employees.
“Therefore the message is “Its ok to do this just don’t get caught””
No. The message is don’t act this way. If you do, expect to be fired.
“What kind of message does that send to LEOs?”
That bullying will not be tolerated.
“Address my points not my grammar please.”
W
I did address your points and not your grammar. I do hope that you do not believe that this cops behavior was acceptable.
Fernwood
Yes. Do you have anymore STUPID questions?
Once again, I’m Brett Darrow the who was stopped by this out of control officer. Here is the proof that I posted about a year ago for those that will say I am not who I say I am.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2579/dsc00016lt3.jpg
To clear a few things up... This was a traffic stop and I was not having a consensual conversation with this officer. Once he hit his overhead lights, this is clear. What is his reason for the stop? High crime rate area? US Supreme court has ruled that is not reasonable suspicion and an officer cannot conduct a terry stop.
Also, some of you seem to say the officer talking about making up charges is not illegal. Are you kidding me? Not only was he talking about making up charges, he told me he was going to say and charge me with resisting arrest even before he attempted arrest! He was going to beat me up and say I fought him.
When he sees the camera he said he would tear all of them apart. Only after I lie and tell him they are being uploaded to a secure source does he start sucking up to me. He even asked me one more time before I got in the car if the tape was in my trunk.
This officer was NO GOOD! Police that defend him are just pissed because they do the same thing to innocent citizens.
Also in this article the other day
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/B37E0AAF74CD32448625735E0008BA00?OpenDocument
“ST. GEORGE — Police Chief Scott Uhrig has given his eight officers a reminder about courtesy — and some words of warning — after one of his sergeants got fired for berating a motorist on tape.
“They know to be polite and courteous,” the chief said, “and they’ve been advised, ‘Stay on your toes. We don’t know how many other Brett Darrows there are out there.’””
Since the chief has already said I didn’t do anything wrong, this makes me believe his comment means, just don’t get caught by someone with a video camera. Why should they have to worry about someone like me? Shouldn’t they be worrying about people violating the law? They’ve already proven they can’t be trusted with their camera’s videotapes, so the people better have their own when they go through St. George.
I should be telling my friends to be cautious and aware when driving. THEY need to stay on their toes. We don’t know how many James Kuehnleins (violating rights, making up charges, assaulting) or Scott Uhrigs (using authority to make sexual advances at 17 year olds) are out there in uniform.
The chief’s comment makes me fear what I had in my mind the whole time. He wasn’t outraged by Kuehnlein’s behavior, but upset he got caught. He was probably even more furious that he didn’t arrest me and destroy the evidence from my car just as he did from his cruiser.
a link to thread about this topic
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1900381/posts?page=36
If you would watch the video, and listen, you would hear when the kid puts on his turn signal. Yes, he was using his turn signal.
Thanks for the post, and for sharing more info. It wouldn’t hurt for ALL motorists to eventually have a little videocam in their cars for protection.
Brett,
I find it hard to believe that the crime rate is that high in that area. I lived in a house that looked down on that commuter lot for 4 months a bit over a year ago (during the lightning storm that knocked out power to that area for a week or so).
While not the nicest looking lot, the neighborhood was very decent and not run down, only older.
You’ve done a great job getting rid of a bad cop. Those that remain on the force won’t feel the need to cover up for a bad comrade and can get on with doing a good job (assuming that any in St. George are good cops)
You are not alone:
He said that my permit had “better say just that, handgun carry,” but even if it did, he’d just “find some other reason to take me in, disorderly conduct, or inciting a panic. I’ll make some reason.” I was shocked to hear him openly state that he would manufacture probable cause to falsely arrest me, in the hearing of my girlfriend, standing no less than 5 feet away, the Wal-Mart employee he had been speaking with, and the small crowd of bystanders watching.
Best regards,
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