Yes,,
Not liking what I am saying or the way I said it is just not the same as refuting it.
Show me in the Law where it says an officer cannot use subtrifuge and deception to gain information..
You cannot...
The Officer did not actually bring false charges against the kid..
Get a clue... What he did was wrong by my values and yours..
At the same time there is a need to gather intelligence when acting as a LEO to try to ferret out what is going on.
Further there is no law prohibiting it... If there was he would have been charged with a crime by now..
Firing the Officer is just a CYA exercise by the Department Heads not addressing what is a systemic problem..
I think pretty much everyone knows this sort of thing goes on all the time..
Now either it is wrong and should be made illegal.. Or it is OK and this Officer should be reinstated.
A while back Plain Clothes Officers followed someone from a Bar and that person ultimately wound up being shot to death.
The Argument was he did not know they were LEO’s
The problem could be solved with a policy change allowing Plain Clothed Officers to arrest only in extraordinary circumstances especially at night..
That has not happened
The problem here will also be glossed over unless we change the law to change the behavior..
Under the current law he did nothing to justify being fired.
I am not saying the Officer is right.. But he committed no crime and did nothing that does not happen every day..
You know that I suspect.
But instead of changing the law you go after some Officer doing on the street what is not all that uncommon..
Therefore the message is “Its ok to do this just don’t get caught”
What kind of message does that send to LEOs?
Address my points not my grammar please.
W
I understand your position and agree with much of it.
But how about some simple civility? The lot was empty. There was nothing to break into. Nothing to steal. How about a simple, "hey, how ya doing, everything OK tonight?" "Hey, you take care" That could have been it! End of story....
Check on his welfare, ask him if everything is OK, and go get some coffee. That would have been the end of it.
Ya see that is part of the whole problem today. There is little civility, or brotherhood among Americans. It's "us vs them" attitude. Half the country no longer trusts government or those that enforce government law. Government has become too intrusive, too big, too punitive...Isn't this why we parted company with the British?
“Yes,,
Not liking what I am saying or the way I said it is just not the same as refuting it.”
Tone and the manner and language used are important. We are not refuting but saying the behavior that is bullying is unprofessional. I don’t tolerate bullies and no way should society tolerate cops that are bullies.
“Show me in the Law where it says an officer cannot use subterfuge and deception to gain information..
You cannot...”
It is well-established case law that police can lie and use subterfuge. That is the reason that refusal to give information and questioning the police on what is the charge is correct. That is the correct way to preserve the constitutional rights of self-incrimination. Courts have decided that people are under no obligation to tell the police what they are doing or planning of doing. They do have to provide their name and license if they are driving.
“The Officer did not actually bring false charges against the kid..”
The cop did not commit the illegal act of bringing false charges. But he did threaten to do so, which is against police policy when there is no reason to suspect the person of a crime. It is no crime to pull into a parking lot and stop at 2 am.
“Get a clue... What he did was wrong by my values and yours..
At the same time there is a need to gather intelligence when acting as a LEO to try to ferret out what is going on.”
Agreed and the act of gathering intelligence would be to inquire what Darrow was doing and to get his license and registration. However Darrow is under no obligation to provide the reason he parked in the lot. The police then run the tag and license to see the status of the driver. If no outstanding warrants then the police have no right to detain or arrest Darrow. Yelling and threatening to lay false charges are bullying and the cop had no reason to act that way. Darrow had not committed a crime.
“Further there is no law prohibiting it... If there was he would have been charged with a crime by now..”
The cop did not commit a crime, but to be fired does not require the employee to commit a crime. Police departments can fire an employee for violating policy and behaving inappropriately or abusing his authority.
“Firing the Officer is just a CYA exercise by the Department Heads not addressing what is a systemic problem..”
Since the officer has stated that he could lay false charges to Darrow, opens up every arrest and ticket he has made to investigation that he falsified charges. Expensive for his department and city. Reason enough to fire the cop.
“I think pretty much everyone knows this sort of thing goes on all the time..”
If it happens all the time, then it is time to get rid of all these cops, since they are in the wrong line of work. Society cannot afford thugs and bullies to be the police since that increases hostility and suspicion in society and leads to a police state. People who have power over the populace should be screened that they not be abusive. Once found that they do abuse their authority, then they should be fired. These are the bad apples that infect the rest of a police department. This leads others to think that is the correct way to behave.
“Now either it is wrong and should be made illegal.. Or it is OK and this Officer should be reinstated.”
Lots of things are wrong that are not illegal. Are you stating that a police officer has to break the law to be fired? Do we all have to break the law in order for our employer to fires us?
“A while back Plain Clothes Officers followed someone from a Bar and that person ultimately wound up being shot to death.
The Argument was he did not know they were LEO’s
The problem could be solved with a policy change allowing Plain Clothed Officers to arrest only in extraordinary circumstances especially at night..
That has not happened
The problem here will also be glossed over unless we change the law to change the behavior..”
There is no need to change the law. All the police department has to do is change the policy. No need for state legislatures to enact laws to make police department policies.
“Under the current law he did nothing to justify being fired.”
Being fired does not require someone to break the law.
“I am not saying the Officer is right.. But he committed no crime and did nothing that does not happen every day..”
If it happens every day, it needs to stop and those that do should go into another line of employment.
“You know that I suspect.
But instead of changing the law you go after some Officer doing on the street what is not all that uncommon..”
Again don’t need a law, just standards and policies that I am sure the police have, just as most companies have for their employees.
“Therefore the message is “Its ok to do this just don’t get caught””
No. The message is don’t act this way. If you do, expect to be fired.
“What kind of message does that send to LEOs?”
That bullying will not be tolerated.
“Address my points not my grammar please.”
W
I did address your points and not your grammar. I do hope that you do not believe that this cops behavior was acceptable.
Fernwood
That’s funny, I thought that uttering threats and threatening behaviour were criminal offenses. I was also under the impression that the constabulary tended to frown on prevarication.
Oh yeah, this is a police officer we are discussing: they don’t have to obey the same laws the rest of us do.
Listen to yourself, FRiend. The contradictions are staggering.