Missouri: Police Roadblock Harassment Caught on Tape.

TheNewspaper.com ^ | 12/30/2006 | Brett Darrow

[The KG9 Kid]

Missouri: Police Roadblock Harassment Caught on Tape
St. Louis County, Missouri threaten to arrest a teenager for refusing to discuss his personal travel plans.

A teenager harassed by police in St. Louis, Missouri caught the incident on tape. Brett Darrow, 19, had his video camera rolling last month as he drove his 1997 Maxima, minding his own business. He approached a drunk driving roadblock where he was stopped, detained and threatened with arrest when he declined to enter a conversation with a police officer about his personal travel habits. Now Darrow is considering filing suit against St. Louis County Police.

"I'm scared to drive for fear of being stopped at another checkpoint and arrested while doing nothing illegal," Darrow told TheNewspaper. "We're now guilty until we prove ourselves innocent to these checkpoint officers."

On that late November night, videotape confirms that Darrow had been ordered out of his vehicle after telling a policeman, "I don't wish to discuss my personal life with you, officer." Another officer attempted to move Darrow's car until he realized, "I can't drive stick!" The officer took the opportunity to undertake a thorough search of the interior without probable cause. He found nothing.

When Darrow asked why he was being detained, an officer explained, "If you don't stop running your mouth, we're going to find a reason to lock you up tonight."

The threats ended when Darrow informed officers that they were being recorded. After speaking to a supervisor Darrow was finally released.

"These roadblocks have gotten out of hand," Darrow told TheNewspaper. "If we don't do something about them now, it'll be too late."

A full video of the incident is available here. A transcript is provided below as the audio is at times very faint.

[eyespysomething]

'short man' syndrome.

LOL, I call it 'little man' syndrome.

[TalonDJ]

Btw, the clutch was not abused.

If the cop stalled the car then something was abused.

The cop was politie and courteous whene requsting info.

Did you miss the part were he tried to intimidate the kid with hints of arrest? You might want to reread it.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

At a drunk roadblock the police are very busy trying to get the non-impaired drivers moving on. By chatting up drivers the police can get a quick handle on whether the driver might be drunk or high. If he looks tipsy or high then the next stage is roadside sobriety test and/or blowing into the alcohol meter. This snotty punk was interfering with this procedure by refusing to talk with the cop

If time's at a premium, the "chatting up" tactic you suggest seems rather self-defeating. Engaging each and every driver who passes through a road block in a conversation to see if the driver's intoxicated seems like it would be a monumental time sink. One would think a good cop would be able to spot a drunk behind the wheel without having to conduct any sort of interview at all.

Also, this "snotty kid" didn't refuse to talk to the cop at all---he talked with the cop(s) quite a bit.

[dennisw]

Looks like a conversation to me. If he just sat there, kept his mouth shut and stared straight ahead I'd agree. But that isn't what he did. There was more than enough back and forth conversation to determine his sobriety. He was lucid and obviously not slurring his speech or they'd have gone to the DWI shuffle right there.

At this point the cops know he isn't drunk but he has pissed off the police with his snotty remarks.
If he was your son would you approve of his rude behavior and taping of the police who are merely operating a drunk driving roadblock?

BTW is against regulations for a cop to ask someone where he is going? Of course not

Please note this punk is thinking of suing and says he doesn't like these police roadblocks. A budding young libertarian

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Courteous and polite?

Brett: Why am I being detained officer? (directed toward Officer #4)
Officer #4: You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight. (Audio can now be heard again) 3:22
Brett: You're saying you're going to make up a reason to arrest me? Officer #4: No I didn't. I said we would find a reason.
Brett: Okay. I just want to let you know all of this is being recorded.
Officer #4: That's good, we're recording it too. Do what he tells you to do--
Brett: I don't have a right to talk right here in a normal voice?
Officer #4: Yes you do.
Brett: You're saying I'm going to be arrested.
Officer #4: I'm just saying...
Brett: You just said you‘re going to find a reason to lock me up.
Officer #4: I said do what he telld you to do.
Brett: You said if I keep runnin my mouth, I will be locked up.
Officer #4: I said he'll find a reason.
Why are you going to find a reason to lock me up when I'm only asking why I'm being detained in a normal voice?
Officer #4: Do what he tells you to do.
Brett: Am I being detained?
Officer #4: Yes you are!
Brett: May I leave?
Officer #4: No, you may not.
Brett: Why am I being detained?
Officer #4: Because you don't have a driver's license.
Brett: I do have a driver's license. I gave it to the other officer.
Officer #4: When the other officer comes back--When he comes back--When he comes back you can talk to him about it.
Brett: Why are you saying I don't have my license?
Officer #4: Nineteen years old and you know everything.
Brett: Yes sir.

[FourtySeven]

Another example of what happens when two egos clash.

Lots of testosterone flowed that night; unfortunately that hormone tends to put the brain on sleep mode.

Should the kid have been detained merely for refusing to answer where he is going? No, and the initial officer that requested he step out simply for that should face disciplinary action. What the officer should have said, if he thought about it, was, "Ok, then how are you tonight?" or some other question, to engage in conversation. Example # 1 of testosterone disabling higher brain functions.

But should the police department be expected to pay for a new clutch? Hardly. I don't know what video anyone else watched, but it sure didn't seem like the engine was being revved; I don't know how else "smoke" could have been generated. That seems like a lie to me. The kid was all over the place really, constantly confronting on different angles. Basically he only has one real complaint (and a valid one don't get me wrong): Being detained simply for refusing to discuss his personal plans for the evening. He should have stuck to that point, instead of complaining about his clutch, and the K9 unit. Example #2 of testosterone disabling higher brain functions.

Bottom line, the offending officer should be taken off that detail, or at least instructed in a better way to engage in idle chit chat. Leading off with the not so invasive "How about this weather?" or "Nice car" would probably be a good idea.

[MortMan]

He did not follow instructions because he refused to engage in conversation with the officer.

Incorrect. He responded to the officer's inquiry about his destination with a full sentence stating that he did not wish to discuss his destination. That is conversation - two way communication. It just did not include the answer the cop wanted.

Further, according to the transcript, he did answer the question about whether he had been drinking (in the negative).

Finally, a police officer cannot search a car just because the driver refuses permission to search a car - that has been ruled not to be adequate probable cause. This is a parallel verbal situation. He answered the question in a manner unsatisfactory to the police officer - but did so in a manner that conveyed he was not belligerent or drunk.

[dennisw]

If time's at a premium, the "chatting up" tactic you suggest seems rather self-defeating. Engaging each and every driver who passes through a road block in a conversation to see if the driver's intoxicated seems like it would be a monumental time sink. One would think a good cop would be able to spot a drunk behind the wheel without having to conduct any sort of interview at all.

Perhaps you can get paid for advising police departments

Also, this "snotty kid" didn't refuse to talk to the cop at all---he talked with the cop(s) quite a bit.

After he mouthed off he had to. The cops were moving his car and threatening to arrest him.
If this punk conversed the normal way this would have been over in 30 seconds. Everyone else does this. Only this punk has a problem with normal procedure

[rbmillerjr]

"You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight."

There is no threat there, only speculation (and possibly a warning to snot nosed punk to quit being an ass so you can proceed through the checkpoint.)

[dennisw]

He did not follow instructions because he refused to engage in conversation with the officer.

Incorrect. He responded to the officer's inquiry about his destination with a full sentence stating that he did not wish to discuss his destination. That is conversation - two way communication. It just did not include the answer the cop wanted.

BS. The police want to hear you say more than just that. In oder to get an idea if you are high in some way

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Perhaps you can get paid for advising police departments

No thanks; I don't think I'd like the pay cut.

After he mouthed off he had to. The cops were moving his car and threatening to arrest him. If this punk conversed the normal way this would have been over in 30 seconds. Everyone else does this. Only this punk has a problem with normal procedure

"Mouthed off?" "Punk?" You seem to have something personal at stake here.

[dennisw]

Nothing personal. He's a punk. I'm not a cop nor is any family member. I respect the police, not dime a dozen punks

[Hemingway's Ghost]

There is no threat there, only speculation (and possibly a warning to snot nosed punk to quit being an ass so you can proceed through the checkpoint.)

Now there's a bunch of bravo sierra.

A man with a deadly weapon and the power to incarcerate you and make your life infinitely miserable says to you "You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight," and you claim that doesn't constitute a threat?

C'mon.

[Groganeer]

"At this point the cops know he isn't drunk but he has pissed off the police with his snotty remarks"

What? I can be detained for pissing off a cop with snotty remarks? Who determines the nature of my comments? That's pretty damned subjective, and it's also wrong. If the purpose of the stop was to determine sobriety and by your own omission that has been determined there is no reason to detain him...period.

"If he was your son would you approve of his rude behavior and taping of the police who are merely operating a drunk driving roadblock?"

Hell yes. I don't see any of this guys behavior as rude,and even if it was, rude isn't the same as illegal. Also the last time I checked it wasn't illegal to tape cops. If it was they would have arrested him for doing it. So no laws were broken and he made a point. If he was my kid I'd be proud.

As for the roadblocks themselves I'm fortunate enough to live in a state where we're still free to move about without asking for permission. It's nice.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

What makes him a "punk?"

[rbmillerjr]

"A man with a deadly weapon and the power to incarcerate you and make your life infinitely miserable says to you "You better stop runnin your mouth or the other officer will find a reason to lock you up tonight," and you claim that doesn't constitute a threat?"

Your comments are loaded. The man with the deadly weapon and ability to make your life more miserable is an officer of the law - you do believe in laws I hope - sworn to protect citizens.

The conversation you cite is officer #4 speculating on officer #1. It is clearly not a threat as he is not himself threatening. Also note that jailing one is not a threat either, but something that happens in a legal way many times over every day and night.

[Charlespg]

The mouthy ones need to be smacked around a bit. Just call it furthering their education

JAWHOL!

Your post has be one of the most arsine things posted on this thread... guess someone's mommy would't let him play cops and robbers

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Also note that jailing one is not a threat either

HUH?????

[DocRock]

"He's a punk."

I was profiled as a "drug mule" in south Florida on I-95 in the late 1980's and my answers were very similar to this "punk". Does that make me a punk, too?

[rbmillerjr]

Here is my full quote, "Also note that jailing one is not a threat either, but something that happens in a legal way many times over every day and night."

The contention above is that he was threatened. He was not threatened. Getting detained is not a threat, but a sanction imposed by law officers.