If We Want to Grow as a Nation, We Must Invest More in Education than Incarceration

BlackAmericaWeb.com ^ | December 15, 2006 | Judge Greg Mathis

[Amelia]

It is time to break the cycle. Privatize universal K-12 education. Privatization would allow teachers and principals the constitutional freedom to demand that parents and students shape up morally, and dish out the important moral and ethical values that these parents and kids desperately need.

You really think that parents who won't accept morality and discipline from public schools would accept it from private schools?

[SoftballMominVA]

Another strawman argument. I didn't even post to you.

No, you didn't post to me, but you quoted my post, therefore, it's to me.

[Amelia]

So...add it up. Tell me. Just exactly when are parents supposed to have this quality time to undo the sour influences of school and school friends? Answer: Precious little!

Most of my students get home before their parents do.

Students aren't *required* to participate in after school activities or spend an hour or two "hanging out" with school friends - they only do that if the parents allow it.

[wintertime]

Nothing in there about "beginning" Just says--do it.

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It is impossible for me to be absolutely exact and thorough with every post. I ***have** repeatedly posted that we should **begin** the process of privatization. I have posted the gradual method that I propose **many** times.

Rational and thoughtful posters will understand that I do not intend or propose sudden disruption.

[af_vet_1981]

We already spend an average of $10,000 per public school student per year, and yet half the inner-city kids graduating can't even read. Money is not the problem.

Correct

Separation, or segregation, of the criminals from those who obey the law and want to learn, is a fundamental basis for liberty, security, and civil rights.

If you are prey you have no civil rights.

[Amelia]

Exactly - as long as students are promoted to the next grade without achieving some sort of standards, the schools will fail. Flunk those that don't meet requirements.

That's the basic premise behind No Child Left Behind.

[wintertime]

So in your bizarro world, your schools can punish parents?

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Private schools hold parents accountable every day. They can and do expect certain behavior from both parent and child as a condition of acceptance. It is a private school's constitutional right to do this.

No matter how disruptive the parent or child, no matter how uncooperative, the government school must accept that child into its schools. As a result, these children and these parents spoil the learning environment for the other children.

But...worse,,,the government school teacher or principal is **not** in the position to dish out the politically incorrect advice these parents need. This is cruel to the dysfunctional child and parent, and to the functional children who would like to learn.

[ruthles]

I went from an inner city school to a plush upper middle class school, and I can say that I better teachers overall in the inner city schools. You MUST be a good teacher there. In the plush neighborhoods, the parents pull the weight for you. It is unfair to praise the schools, or blame them when it's all about the families.

[SoftballMominVA]

It is time to break the cycle. Privatize universal K-12 education.

Show me where it says it is a gradual process in this quote, posted before you added the "begin" which you have never added before. You have always posted comments that imply it is done NOW, right NOW with no gradual phase in

But back to an earlier question. Under what constitutional authority would these private schools punish parents? What would the punishment be? Is this set in law first? or just when it looks like we need it? What authority forces anyone to begin paying tuition? Do you rewrite IDEA, ADA and Civil Rights laws before the privatization or just ignore them and go on what feels good right then? What happens to those kids whose parents don't care about them and say "Sure, you can drop out of school at 10 (or 12, or 14, or whatever) years old." What about those parents who just say "nope, no school ever for my kid--I didn't learn nothing, neither will they. Here kid, watch TV, I'm going out." What is the mechanism that keeps them in school?

You have no arguments--strawman or otherwise. Just anger at everyone having anything to do with public schools and a general dream about how things could go your way.

[wintertime]

I want off!

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It is time to "get off". It is time to privatize universal K-12 education.

Oh,,,before Softballmom gets in a dither, I have in the past outlined numerous time the gradual process I recommend.

[wintertime]

It is unfair to praise the schools, or blame them when it's all about the families.

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It is fair to blame government schools for undermining values, morals, and ethics taught in the home.

It is fair to blame government schools for their amoral stance toward and refusal to stand for values that would help their captives ( oops! "students") build healthy and stable families.

[wintertime]

Under what constitutional authority would these private schools punish parents?

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Another example of a strawman.

I have never used the word "punish". I can not defend an argument of YOUR creation. It is impossible.

[SoftballMominVA]

Private schools rarely punish kids--if the parents can write a check, the kid can stay in school. Kids are punished more severely in public schools every day.

I personally know of a situation where a congressman's son and the daughter of a prominent politician spread used cat litter in the lobby of their school as a senior prank. Not just a speck or two, I'm talking sacks of it. Punishment? none--both had parents with influence and power. The teachers wanted these kids to miss graduation. The dads said no way--they had guests coming and they didn't want to have them come and the kids not be there. They actually would have been punished in a public school--probably with expulsion or suspension.

Kids get punished all the time in public schools. I have one in suspension right now for 5 days for pulling a pretty dumb act.

And, no don't ask me who the kids were. I know who they are and anyone here would know one of the dads, but the moment I posted it, I would have a moderator pulling the post. Sorry, I know that's lame in a way, but that's the restriction. Can I PROVE it? of course not, not in this forum.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Wow! Double wow! Talk about workin' the System...

[meyer]

That's the basic premise behind No Child Left Behind.

Unfortunately, No Child Left Behind falls short, though it's a major step in the right direction, at least in terms of creating an atmosphere of accountability. The simple (though unrealistic) solution would be to let schools pass out diplomas as they wish, but allow or require a test to receive a higher-level endorsement of some sort. In other words, make the basic diploma worthless without having proof of achievement.

Frankly, I'm inclined to allow bypassing the government-issued diploma and government school processes in favor of simply allowing comprehensive testing instead. Why sit through Algebra II when you've already obtained the skills in the subject? Why sit through 11th and 12th grade when you've already adequately mastered the basic subject material required for passing the graduation exam?

[Amelia]

Private schools rarely punish kids--if the parents can write a check, the kid can stay in school.

There are 2 private Christian schools in a nearby city that have a reputation for taking students who have been expelled from public schools. If, of course, the parents can afford the tuition...

People who have taught there say discipline is horrible.

[Myrddin]

Because I was poor, I had to use loans and tax-payer supported government grants to pay for my education.

My dad made just a little to much for me to qualify for any kind of assistance, but plenty enough to pay taxes to support this whiner. I was fortunate that UCSD was only $212 per quarter, $36 annually for parking and about $100 per quarter for books...recycled through the "buy backs" to minimize the investment in books that didn't have continuing value. I lived at home and made a 50 mile round trip almost daily. The grind of 18-22 units per quarter and another 16 to 20 garnered over each summer allowed me to complete my B.A. in Molecular Biology at age 19. My charter was to graduate before my dad retired from the Navy. I graduated in June 1976. Dad retired in September 1977...shortly after my sister graduated from nursing school.

My #2 son paid $1,000 per class for the University of Phoenix. He paid for that out of earnings selling real estate and some veterans benefits from serving in Iraq/Kuwait with the USMC. He accumulated as much lower division credit as he could tolerate via the community college system in San Diego. He called it "super high school". It was evident from the quality of instruction and participation that neither students nor instructors really wanted to be there. The experience at University of Phoenix was 180 from the community college. UoP students and instructors wanted to be there and showed strong interest in gathering practical skill to use in their workplace. He's a real estate broker now with 26 employees. It's been almost 6 months since he graduated with the BS in Business Admin. We we last discussed the topic of student loans in August, he expected his next two home sales would pay off the remaining balance.

[SoftballMominVA]

Every now and again the DC Government posts their budget, a line-item budget so that any citizen can see where the money goes. Under the schools, there is a line-itme for attorneys fees and settlements. The amount is always in the millions.

[GOP_Raider]

If We Want to Grow as a Nation, We Must Invest More in Education than Incarceration

This is akin to saying "If aviation wants to grow more as an industry, they must invest more in Eastern Airlines.

[SoftballMominVA]

Our high school allows kids to graduate early, once they have enough credits. (I suppose that others do too.) Kids that take no electives and only core classes can graduate in 3 years -- if they go to summer school they can do it in 2. And then off to college or to the workplace.