Posted on 08/18/2005 12:16:45 PM PDT by jb6
Ex-Chief of State Committee of Entrepreneurship reckons that Ukraine needs to get rid of nonprofessionals and populists of the power. Inna Bogoslovskaya states it during online conference which is going on right now on ForUm.
In response to the question "how can Ukraine overcome a crisis" she named the steps which would benefit the situation in the country: "the first one is to make a revision of new appointees and to get rid of nonprofessionals and populists and then to appoint real professionals to their posts; the second one is to make the power consistence more homogeneous by dismissal of Socialists, neo-Bolsheviks and wild revolutionists; the last one is to retire Timoshenko as PM of Ukraine who betrayed the fundamentals of bourgeois-democratic Orange Revolution and engrained neo-Bolshevism in Ukraine.”
Bogoslovskaya has put bad mark to the Cabinet’s work.
"I seriously doubt you have ever been to Russia"
People still dream of leaving Russia - ask the wives of all the american russophiles on this site.
As such, why would I ever want to go there?
Which buddies are those? The ones that slept in the Lincoln bedroom? Or the ones that had a big conference in DC last year? The ones that we have a huge trade surplus with and send all our industry to? The ones that we've been courting since Nixon?
And for the record, they're having their first military exercise with the Chinese, its 2005. This year alone, we've had 5 exercises with the Russians and this has been going on for the past 14 years.
In Bosnia we even had mixed companies of US and Russian mechanized infantry, broken down by national platoons.
Gee, be a cold day in Hell before Spanalot mentions persecuting the communists (like Shevarnadze) in Georgia. By the way Span, why aren't you in front of Gorbachov's office in the Presidio, Ca?
If Putin will start waging open wars on its neighbors trying to take them over by force and vie for the world domination, then civilized world will have no choice but to defeat Putin's Russia militarily.
However, Putin (as nasty as he is) is not Hitler. He meddled in the Ukrainian election, and he still supports separatists in Georgia. He wants to regain Russia's influence in fmr. USSR by playing dangerous games (like meddling in Ukrainian elections by sending Kremlin "political technologists" to prop up Yanukovich), but so far he did not graduate to the level of Hitler or Stalin who simply took over countries militarily. If he becomes as agressive as Hitler, than its another conversation. But so far he is not Hitler.
Professional politicians instead of the people's choice....
sniff sniff....
Smells like Commie-World to me.
What makes a man a Hitler or a Stalin is the mass slaughter, oppression, extermination that the two conducted both on their own people and on others.
By your definitions, every nation is as guilty as Hitler, since every nation conquered. Was King David a Hitler? He conquered by God's word.
The epicenter of Power and Genocideis the Kremlin which is decidedly in Russia and run by people living in Russia aka RUSSIANS. ==
Kremlin was the residence of Partriarkh. Commies evoke Patriarkh and later killed him. They took his residence and ruled from there. It it russian fault that commies OCCUPIED Kremlin?
Kremlin is very old place. Once Napolean occupied it. Once before him it was poles. Once before poles it was tatars.
SO what? Is Kremlin become center of polish or Napoleonic power? No. Occupiers came and gone. But Kremlin stands.
In Russian Empire there are many different nationalities lived. You yourself stresses that ukarnians for example are not russians. Right?
But ukranians lives in Russian Empire and Soviet Union! And they gave us 2 General Secretary of CPSU: Kruschev and Brezhnev.
And in goverment of Lenin was 6(!) ukranian ministers: Lunacharskii, Podvoiskii, Tsurupa, Antonov-Evseenko, Dibenko, Krilenko. More then ukranians there was only jews.
Russians wasn't there except maybe one Kalinin.
SO much for "ruling russians"< isn't it?
It is all well-known facts but they conradict your russo-phobia.
"You may find the Stalin extoll obly in Geogria today. He was georgian FYI. "
More Russian propaganda foolishness we don't suffer gladly. ==
What propaganda? Whole world knows that Stalin name was Josef Dzugashvilli. He was born by georgian father and mother. That make him a georgian not russian:)).
Go learn facts:)).
"A new resurgence of nostalgia for Joseph Stalin is reverberating throughout Russia. As recently reported by the Telegraph, new monuments in several Russian communities are being erected to honor the genocidal Soviet dictator who liquidated millions of Soviet citizens"==
Oh. Telegraph again:)). Do you believe everything what is pressed by MSM?
I'm not talking what happened 100, or 1000 years ago. Yes, simply conquering other countries won't make politician a Hitler. Mass repression and mass murder of innocents does. However, in Modern world, civilized countries do not take over other civilized countries simply because they have political disagreements. If Putin were to threaten Ukraine or Poland with military force for following policies Kremlin simply does not like (like electing a leader that Kremlin does not approve or criticizing Kremlin stances on various issues), that would be a gross act of blackmail against countries that do not actually threaten Russia in any way. If Ukraine and Poland were demanding pieces of Russian land and played host to terror groups that were waging a war against Russia, that would be a different story. It's all purely hypothetical scenarios and I hope and pray that such scenarios will never play out for real.
Any political or economic disagreements Russia, Poland and Ukraine have now can and must be decided peacefully and constructively behind tables. Russia had no right to interfere in Ukrainian elections last year. Also claiming that attack on Russian Diplomat kids was unfriendly act from Poland to Russia is very irresponsible. Moscow skinheads attacked foreigners, including foreign Diplomats a number of times, and I didn't hear that countries whose citizens were attacked blamed Russia for being unfriendly.
Span and Ivan.
You both actually can't see the forest behind the trees. You took out some facts whatever suitable to you, but ignore others.
Here I'll try to summarize what I see as the better picture.
First, yes Stalin was Georgian, who ruled from Moscow. Whether we call him Georgian, Russian or Russian Georgian-- the bottom line was that he was COMMUNIST MASS MURDERER and tens of millions of Soviet Citizens were murdered under his reign of terror including significant part of Russians (residents of Russia, ethnic Russians, Russianized non-Russians, etc.)
Many Russians were victims of Communist Regime. However, many Russians were also the part of this regime. The bulk of the Red/Soviet Military--the main pillar of the Communist Regime were Russians. In fact, under Stalin regime perpetrators and victims were often one and the same people. Here is an example of Soviet General Gorbatov. He was one of the leading Soviet (Red) Army generals who was arrested by NKVD during great purges of 1937-1938. He was brutally tortured by NKVD henchmen who demanded he would sign the paper of being a spy of a bunch of foreign intelligence services and he would say the same about his military colleagues. He courageously refused to do any of that, and he survived the brutal torture. He was released in 1939. However he still remained a die hard communist believer thinking that his arrest was just a "mistake" (not an essense of Communist Regime), and he gladly accepted his restoration to the ranks of the Red Army. In the same year, Gorbatov was one of the top officers who led the Stalin treacherous assault on Poland in September of 1939 in alliance with Hitler. From 1941-1945 Soviet-German war, Gorbatov was one of the top generals in Soviet Army fighting against Hitler. Gorbatov remembered by his soldiers as caring general who did his utmost to spare the lives of his men in battle, unlike the Red Army policy of recklessly spending bodies often to achieve dubious objectives (i.e. Take some city before Stalin Birthday). However, Gorbatov was also the part of this terrible regime--that's a fact too.
The tragedy of Russian society is that many (but by no means all) Russians still view Stalin as a great leader (Brutal, ruthless, but father figure who made Russia/USSR a great and feared power) although nearly all Russians are children, grandchildren or relatives of those who perished during Stalin Era or gone through GULAGs, collectivization, purges, etc.
Many Russian people still don't want to come to grips that the regime that used, abused, murdered and raped them, their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, grandpas, grandmas and themselves was their enemy too--not their "glorious past".
Russia as society needs to come out of this historical self-denial and come to terms with its past not only as victim of Communist regime but also as the central player. When past will be properly judged and all communist policies will be properly condemned, then we can say that Russia is on the right path. Otherwise, Russia is doomed to remain under brutal autocrats that don't care about well-being of ordinary Russians but who only see Russians as "human material" to satisfy their political appetites.
Still wouldn't make him a Hitler or a Stalin. When people throw around those labels so quickly, it cheapens the victims of those two psychopaths. As for your scenario: Latvia and Estonia both make active claims on Russian land, and now have EU backing. Furthermore, Georgia has cuddled Islamics for years and continues giving out passports/visas to incoming islamics, as does Azerbajan.
Russia had no right to interfere in Ukrainian elections last year
You are right, but why no criticism for Poland and the rest of the EU which took active parts in intervening and to a much bigger degree? Or their intervention into Moldova's elections where they blocked out any other observers but the OSCE who ignored blatent Communist party cheating, after the Communist government bent its knee to the EU?
You can't criticize one side and ignore when the other side does the exact same thing and act impartial.
Once again you're calling them 'socialists' which might be true from the American perspective, but the term 'socialists' and 'left-wing' is to be reserved for the Socialist Party of Ukraine, Communists, SDPU, Selians'ka Party (village party :)), Progressive Socialists etc. Yuschenko is right of centre.
But if you mean his current policies are socialist in nature, at first I'd prefer a more pleasing "liberal", and then would I kind of, sort of, agree. :)) There is an element of playing up to the voters, but I suspect after the 2006 parliamentary elections, it'd be back to capitalism.
This has nothing to do with independence from Moscow, which is a 14 year fact.
Kravchuk and Kuchma had to fight hard to keep the indepence <- their only achievement. Crimea, Black Sea Fleet, CIS agreements (it took effort to make the organization meaningless), etc. All this with the severe economic crises and the KPU. Here's something for you Americans-- for years the communists had refused to take an oath to the state of Ukraine. In effect, here's a party in Ukraine whose goal is the abolishment of the state. And this non-sense is legal.
Once again you're calling them 'socialists' which might be true from the American perspective, but the term 'socialists' and 'left-wing' is to be reserved for the Socialist Party of Ukraine, Communists, SDPU, Selians'ka Party (village party :)), Progressive Socialists etc. Yuschenko is right of centre.
But if you mean his current policies are socialist in nature, at first I'd prefer a more pleasing "liberal", and then would I kind of, sort of, agree. :)) There is an element of playing up to the voters, but I suspect after the 2006 parliamentary elections, it'd be back to capitalism.
This has nothing to do with independence from Moscow, which is a 14 year fact.
Kravchuk and Kuchma had to fight hard to keep the indepence <- their only achievement. Crimea, Black Sea Fleet, CIS agreements (it took effort to make the organization meaningless), etc. All this with the severe economic crises and the KPU. Here's something for you Americans-- for years the communists had refused to take an oath to the state of Ukraine. In effect, here's a party in Ukraine whose goal is the abolishment of the state. And this non-sense is legal.
I wish it was as easy as that, but Russian bear is still mad about last fall in Ukraine (so it's beating up Poles in Moscow :)). And since January there's been a type of Cold War between Ukraine and RF. Next year's parliamentary elections should be very entertaining.
"You are right, but why no criticism for Poland and the rest of the EU which took active parts in intervening and to a much bigger degree? Or their intervention into Moldova's elections where they blocked out any other observers but the OSCE who ignored blatent Communist party cheating, after the Communist government bent its knee to the EU? "
They interfered only after Putin and his political technologists started pushing their own candidate and hefty sum of money from Russian coffers was transferred to Yanukovich party. Ideally everybody including Russia, Poland and EU should have kept their hands off Ukrainian elections. However, Putin was the one who sent Pavlovsky and other "Kremlinologists" and spent hefty sums of money from Russian coffers to prop up Yanukovich. Had Kremlin simply stayed out of the elections, others would have little reason to interfere too.
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