Bogoslovskaya: Timoshenko must be dismissed

Forum Ukraine ^ | 18 August

[jb6]

Ex-Chief of State Committee of Entrepreneurship reckons that Ukraine needs to get rid of nonprofessionals and populists of the power. Inna Bogoslovskaya states it during online conference which is going on right now on ForUm.

In response to the question "how can Ukraine overcome a crisis" she named the steps which would benefit the situation in the country: "the first one is to make a revision of new appointees and to get rid of nonprofessionals and populists and then to appoint real professionals to their posts; the second one is to make the power consistence more homogeneous by dismissal of Socialists, neo-Bolsheviks and wild revolutionists; the last one is to retire Timoshenko as PM of Ukraine who betrayed the fundamentals of bourgeois-democratic Orange Revolution and engrained neo-Bolshevism in Ukraine.”

Bogoslovskaya has put bad mark to the Cabinet’s work.

[REactor]

So you had better never complain or post anything about any socialist/duer elected here in the US. The people elected them, you have no right to criticize them, especially out of your state.

Criticize them, please do! But honestly. Tell us what was the alternative to Yushchenko: Yanukovych- criminal and a fraud, and that Yushchenko is not establishing socialism beacuse socialism was there long before him.

[jb6]

Well call it what you wish but under him taxation went up 20%, minimal wage 90% and maximum prices (price controls) have been set on commodities. If that's not socialism, what pray tell is?

[jb6]

Sorry but I'm not attacking all Poles.

[anonymoussierra]

"I'm not selective: I have patience and being respectful: e for moralizing is not on issue here. What is seen can bee unseen if you know what it means? Look; I’m a last person to question all of you ok. What you gain if you are rude?"

[Iris7]

First, I respect Jan III Sobieski, and those who followed him, and what they did.

Marshall Pilsudski and his gallant followers did a lot more than "just" the Miracle of the Vistula, which kept Rosa Luxemberg et al. from tying in with Lenin. Germany would have gone Red. Communists from Atlantic to Pacific. A close call.

There is a nice quote from a Korean movie, where the General says "There are two sorts of people, Communists, and those who kill Communists. I am of the second sort." There is at least one other on this thread who has done his best to kill those people and to try not to be killed by them.

I understand the great Polish interest in "Western Ukraine" (That goes back a long way, eh?). I understand the great hostility toward Moscow. I understand your hostility toward criticism of Yuschenko.

Politicians always lie. They really have no choice.

Here is the first reality. People lie to themselves, and then to others. First they lie to themselves.

Yuschenko and Timoshenko look like very serious crooks, with hit squads, tremendous graft, and massive bribe giving. Was Kuchma better? No. (Remember that Timoshenko was Kuchma's creature for many years. She put billions in Kuchma's pockets, looks like. She was Kuchma's moneybags.) But at least Kuchma didn't lie about being "for freedom." He said instead something like "Russians Rule!!"

Yuschenko was the EU candidate, Kuchma the Russian. Do I trust the Russian government? No. Do I trust the EU government? No. Well, actually, I trust them both to do whatever they believe is in their self interest.

From my point of view Poland was foolish to join the EU. You will live to regret joining.

[Iris7]

Sharing something about my dreams -

Maybe in a few years I will be able to retire. It could happen. I plan to visit Poland. If God wills, I would like to learn the language enough for my needs. Perhaps live quietly in a small way, in a small town. Talk with my neighbors.

Of course, I have family over here who are my first concern. Hopefully air fares will not get too dear.

[Lukasz]

Marshall Pilsudski and his gallant followers did a lot more than "just" the Miracle of the Vistula

You should not mention Pilsudski in this thread, „jb6” hate him very much.

I understand the great Polish interest in "Western Ukraine" (That goes back a long way, eh?).

I would say that “Polish interest in whole Eastern Europe”. There is almost no Poles there, that is why historical reasons are meaningless.

I understand the great hostility toward Moscow. I understand your hostility toward criticism of Yuschenko.

I would say my hostility towards Putin and his „post”-communist gang. I understand criticism and I treat people who are doing so with respect. But I don’t understand “jb6” propaganda, there is so many lies that I simply cannot stand this hypocrisy.

Politicians always lie. They really have no choice.

I know that, all of them. But I prefer Yushchenko who is at least in line with Polish foreign policy than criminals from Kremlin. I prefer also nationalists from Tymoshenko’s party than quasi communists from Moscow. There is no ideal politicians and corruption is everywhere. Previous equip lost their chance, lets give a chance to Yushchenko especially that Ukrainian themselves elected him. Some people in this forum don’t respect their choice, they prefer Ukrainian president elected by Kremlin.

Yuschenko was the EU candidate, Kuchma the Russian.

Hardly Yushchenko is EU candidate. EU was engaged just when Poland and Lithuania pressured them do to so. They don’t have any Eastern policy toward countries other than Russia. Schroeder, Chirac and Zapatero are in bed with Putin. Smaller countries prefer to stay neutral.

I also prefer more Eastern European countries in EU and less in CIS or CES. Eastern and Central European countries will have strong position in the EU, only when they join political forces.

[spanalot]

"It does appear that Timoshenko, her huband, and his father have made billions of dollars illegally"

There is absolutely no basis for this "billion" dollar bs that the Kremlin is spewing.

Her boss was apprehended in the US with a few million and it is laughable that Tymoshenko could have absconded with 100 times this amount.

Why all the Uke bashing for the new govt? Is it because the Kremlin can't get near enough to poison them?

This is as phoney as when Yanukovych, Putins candidate, took a fall lasst year when he was hit by a raw egg. This was a few seconds before the "real assassin" was to have attacked him.

All a ploy to garner sympathy after the very real attempt on Yushchenko's life.

[spanalot]

"However, it angers me to see the hate directed at Russia and Russians, when it should be directed at communists, which were in each of those countries."

What is with the past tense "were"?

Putin is former KGB who fully props up the very real and current Communists in Bylorussia and now he is buddies with the Communist Chinese.

We will stop despising Russians when they collectively stop extolling Stalin and accept blame for the 100 million.- who committed or exported the Genocide of 100 million in the last century.

We will stop despising Russians when they bring to trial the first Genocide criminal - and ther are several hundred thousand to hose from.

[spanalot]

"It is evil to apply group guilt to Russians. Indeed, it is every bit as evil as the acts of Stalin."

Quit the lip service - get your Kremlin buddies to prosecute the first Communist for Genocide crime. Or are there no former Communists left?

[RusIvan]

I do it pretty often, and I've been called a Russian hater, Russophobe.==

Who called you "russophobe"? By the way what is "russian party"?

As far as I know FR is for discussions. And ancient russin proverb says: "In discussions the truth is born".

Hence in any discussion someone are pro- and other is counter-. No discussion if anyone argees on anything. It is just boring isn't it?

[RusIvan]

We will stop despising Russians when they collectively stop extolling Stalin and accept blame for the 100 million.- who committed or exported the Genocide of 100 million in the last century. ==

You may find the Stalin extoll obly in Geogria today. He was georgian FYI.

Commie ideology and crimes committed by soviets. Russians was only part of it. Russians fought commies form start. Remember Civil war 1917-22.
SO if someone has to appologize then those who export commies ideology between minorities groups in former Russian Empire.

[anonymoussierra]

"From my point of view Poland was foolish to join the EU. You will live to regret joining."

---

"You have nailed this in a nut shell. What is done is done and it's too late to change things. Personally I think we should just stay away from Brussels; in for what I know means nothing; I know this though; time is coming for serious shake up in old guard: we can't continue to have people from past running affairs in a future; you just don't mix milk with acid. What's going on right now with all this nonsense in Belarus; Moscow; Warsaw got to stop and someone has to put dent or we're going to see war; no this is not joke: at fore reality. As far as other elements of political structure comes out it needs to be seen who makes first move. Let me get this bluntly: either you learn from history or you are doom for your own misunderstanding of facts. I have said this and for I will say one more time: war has started and it will continue; either fore it is war in spiritual and physical form. You can't win it by sliding in; to win it you have to put some things aside and unite; or enemy will finish you like they did in Chechnya with kids. If you think I am joking for surely I am not joking: in for being realistic. Neither Russia or my country or Ukraine of Belarus or Litwa or other countries from east to west can afford to allow their disagreements come up and destroy fabric of unity; nor for can others forget what war is. I am telling you if only Slavic people would let certain things go and unite in spirit and honesty you will see nation so powerful it will scare even Chinese; and then unite with Americans and you will have a power house of unimaginable stature. By nation I mean Slavic nations together in one. We have our disagreements but if you talk to basic people on a street they have different prospective of whom is who. After all life is life. Power itself corrupts; power in love builds; neither should hate be underscore here; for it is self delineator of all problems; to understand this you need to understand gift of love and I am speaking in metaphorical way right now. In fore look beyond simple A and you will know why there is more then Z. In eto idiocy of life is: we choose politicians to run our life’s; et for: we complain about them: in for: who has chosen them? I think everything happens for a reason."

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thank you

[spanalot]

"You may find the Stalin extoll obly in Geogria today. He was georgian FYI. "

More Russian propaganda foolishness we don't suffer gladly.

The epicenter of Power and Genocideis the Kremlin which is decidedly in Russia and run by people living in Russia aka RUSSIANS.

These Kremlin living Russians have been loathe to lose centralized power ergo the unprecedented genocide.

[sergey1973]

anonymoussierra, Let's bring the Fire Brigade, so jb6 and our Polish FReepers are no longer at each other throats -:))))))

jb6--I think there is no one left on FR who did not know what you think about Yushenko and Tymoshenko. Maybe it's time to change the tune just for everyone's sanity sake -:)))) ?

Ukrainian voters elected Yushenko and Tymoshenko standing for weeks freezing on Maidan, so let them live with their choice whether its good or bad. It's up to Ukrainian voters to decide who should govern them--it's not up to Kremlin, EU or US.

[anonymoussierra]

---

"Ukrainian voters elected Yushenko and Tymoshenko standing for weeks freezing on Maidan, so let them live with their choice whether its good or bad. It's up to Ukrainian voters to decide who should govern them--it's not up to Kremlin, EU or US."

---

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sergey1973]

"The epicenter of Power and Genocideis the Kremlin which is decidedly in Russia and run by people living in Russia aka RUSSIANS. "

Kremlin was the epicentre of the Communist Genocide--yes it was. We can say that Russian Communists are responsible for the Genocide--yes we can. Stalin was native of Georgia (Russian Province) but since most of his life he lived in Moscow as the head of USSR, we can say he was Russian Georgian, hence Russian Communist and mass murder organizer.

But among 100+ million victims of Communist regime there were millions and millions of Russians too, let's not leave this "little" fact out. Also majority of GULAG inmates were ethnic Russians (read Anne Applebaum GULAG: A History). It was the Russian Writer Alexandr Solzhenitsyn and former GULAG inmate who brought to a full light the GULAG horrors to the world in his monumental work "Gulag Archipelago".

Many ordinary Russians still suffer from history amnesia and servile attitute toward those in Power. Many Russians still look positively in Stalin as the grand leader of a powerful empire although nearly every Russian Family had somebody who went through GULAG, "great Purges", collectivization, etc. That's disheartening, but its no reason not to remember the were many Russians among victims of Communist Regime.

We must judge people first and foremost as individuals--not as members of ethnic or national groups.

[anonymoussierra]

""You may find the Stalin extoll obly in Geogria today. He was georgian FYI. "

More Russian propaganda foolishness we don't suffer gladly.

The epicenter of Power and Genocideis the Kremlin which is decidedly in Russia and run by people living in Russia aka RUSSIANS.

These Kremlin living Russians have been loathe to lose centralized power ergo the unprecedented genocide."

---

"You can't put all Russians in one basket lot; this is like saying all poles are morons: and I heard it: in for each person is different; we can't have this constant assumption all Russians hate us; its nonsense; Putin doesn't represent all Russian people neither does Kwasniewski represent all of us; I understand historical facts which needs to be point out; but this goes further much further. In for Putin is running with a hammer and scratching his head; but basic Russian people live so do we and others. I tell you who hate us; we hate our self for each of us has different thought of if and if; take that as a metaphorical analogy. I understand your point; but can we change past? Can we seriously say all Russians hate us? Can we say all people hate us? And if they say that can we put all them in one category? Just my thought; relax or I'm going to write for you a joke in polish so you can smile for once. Warsaw doesn't represent me neither is Kremlin nor Minsk; in for each person is different: eto Stalin is burning in deepest part in hell with his great boyfriend Hitler. Relax lot"

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no dobra dzieki/thank you/grazie

[GarySpFc]

"Ukrainian voters elected Yushenko and Tymoshenko standing for weeks freezing on Maidan, so let them live with their choice whether its good or bad. It's up to Ukrainian voters to decide who should govern them--it's not up to Kremlin, EU or US."

I fully agree. I do believe Russia, U.S., Poland, and all other countries need to mind their own business and stay out of the Ukraine.

[GarySpFc]

Yushchenko won the elections. Is he leading his country to socialism, as some individuals on this forum claim? Certainly not. But even if that was true: he is the leader chosen by his nation.

To be honest, I don't think any of the elections held in the Ukraine were fair. However, I will respect the results of the election which show Yushchenko won.