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Darwin Among the Believers (theory of evolution crucial for many fields)
Tech Central Station ^ | 07/22/2005 | Frederick Turner

Posted on 07/22/2005 4:46:53 AM PDT by Nicholas Conradin

In a recent TCS essay ("Darwin and Design: The Evolution of a Flawed Debate") I attacked what I regarded as the excesses of both sides of the evolution-creationism debate. There were angry responses in the mail and the blogosphere from both the creationist and the evolution sides, which pleased me, since there were clearly oxen on both sides that felt they had been gored, and caps in my piece that were felt to have, uncomfortably, fit. The angry evolutionists were especially interesting, as they often wound up admitting implicitly that their real agenda was atheism -- while denying that there was any social policy message in that agenda.

In the essay I did state flatly that the theory of evolution had been proved. I wanted it to be clear where I stood. Much of the mail I received protested about that statement. I hold to it, and hold to it not as my own opinion, but as a fact, like the existence of Australia, which is not my opinion but a fact. But I do know that there are many who sincerely, and given their range of knowledge, rationally, do not believe in the theory of evolution.

By the theory of evolution I mean the origination of new species from common ancestral forms by an iterated process of genetic mutation, natural selection, and hereditary transmission, whereby the frequencies of newly altered, repeated, and old genes and introns in a given lineage can cross ecological, structural, and behavioral thresholds that radically separate one species from another. In one sense, this can be summed up in a syllogism, which must be true if we make the basic and essential act of faith that logic itself is true: survivors survive. Given enough time, variation among the genes of individuals, variations in habitat in space and time, the process by which genes translate into proteins, tissues, and organs, and the thresholds that define biological species, all of which can be observationally verified, the principle of the "survivors survive" syllogism must bring about a huge branching of different kinds of life.

The above summary statement of the theory will not convince opponents, who will be able to pick philosophical holes in it (which holes have been sewn up by countless scientists and philosophers in the last 150 years). But what opponents of evolution do not perhaps realize is what they are up against in terms of sheer human and civilizational achievement based on the evolutionary paradigm. This is not a proof of evolution, any more than the four-thousand year history of the survival of the Jewish people is a proof of Judaism or the worldwide congregation of Christianity is a proof of that religion; but it is an indication of the kind of scholarship that would be needed to refute it.

There are at least 50 major journals in the academic field of biology. All accept without question the theory of evolution as I outlined it above. They are not attempting even to prove the theory, any more than math journals attempt to prove that the sum of the internal angles of a plane triangle is 180 degrees, or engineering journals revisit the existence of gravity. But they would be nonsense without the theory of evolution, just as engineering would be nonsense without gravity. Each of those journals is published about four times a year; several of them have been in existence for over a hundred years. Each journal contains at least ten articles of about 2-20 pages, and each of those articles represents several months' or years' work by a team of trained biologists whose most compelling material and moral interest would be to disprove the work of all their predecessors and to make an immortal name by doing so. The work of the biological teams is required to be backed up by exhaustive experiment and observation, together with exact statistical analysis of the results. There is a continuous process of search through all these articles by trained reviewers looking for discrepancies among them and demanding new experimental work to resolve them. Since every one of these articles relies on the consistency and truth of the theory of evolution, every one of them adds implicitly to the veracity of the theory. By my calculation, then, opponents of evolution must find a way of matching and disproving, experiment by experiment, observation by observation, and calculation by calculation, at least two million pages of closely reasoned scientific text, representing roughly two million man-years of expert research and perhaps trillions of dollars of training, salaries, equipment, and infrastructure.

But the task of the opponent does not end here. For biology is not the only field for which the theory of evolution is an essential foundation. Geology, physical anthropology, agricultural science, environmental science, much of chemistry, some areas of physics (e.g. protein folding) and even disciplines such as climatology and oceanography (which rely on the evolutionary history of the planet in its calculations about the composition of the atmosphere and oceans), are at least partially founded on evolution. Most important of all for our immediate welfare, medicine is almost impossible as a research discipline without evolutionary theory. So perhaps the opponent must also throw in another 4 million pages, four million man-years, and ten trillion dollars -- and be prepared to swallow the billions of human deaths that might follow the abandonment of the foundations of medical, mining, environmental, agricultural, and climatological knowledge.

If what is at stake is a proposition in the theology of biblical interpretation that is not shared by a large minority or possibly a majority of Christians and Jews, perhaps it might be more prudent to check the accuracy of the theology, which, after all, is a human creation even if scripture itself is conceded to be divinely inspired. Might not God's intentions be revealed better in the actual history and process of nature, his creative expression, than in the discrepancies we might hope to find in its self-consistency and coherent development?


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: atheism; biology; creationism; crevolist; darwin; evolution; medicine; pharisee
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To: mike182d
To have evolution one must have three things: imperfect replication, variation, and selection. Since prior to the existence of life none of these can come into play, evolution can only occur after life has come into being. Therefore, evolution cannot cover the origin of life.

In other words, regardless how you rant and rave, you are wrong.

201 posted on 07/22/2005 12:23:06 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: mike182d
Did it exist prior to the first lifeform?

No. If there were no imperfect replicators, there was no evolution. Evolution started when the first life forms made imperfect copies of themselves.

If not, where did it come from?

It didn't "come from" anything. It's just a consequence of entities replicating imperfectly imperfectly.

Who or what brough the causal force of evolution into being?

Evolution isn't a "force". It's more of a side-effect process of life forms reproducing imperfectly such that only a certain subgroup of the offspring are able to successfully reproduce themselves.

Evolutionists only don't want to talk about abiogenesis because its the biggest fault of their entire theory and they have no answer for it.

Or maybe it's because, despite the insistence of creationists who haven't actually studied the field, how the first life forms came to exist in the first place has no bearing on evolution.

Three scenarios: The first life forms were the result of molecules coming together in the right configuration through natural and undirected processes, the first life forms were seeded by time-travelling humans, the first life forms were zap-poofed into existence by a divine agent. Now, let's say that you falsify two of those explanations (this doesn't "prove" the third, because there are any number of unstated hypothetical explanations that I didn't include in the above list). Pick any two of them, and explain how falsifying them would affect the theory of evolution. Be specific.
202 posted on 07/22/2005 12:24:48 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: mlc9852
Good point. Dishonest creationists hate having their lies exposed, especially when their lies are so transparent.

I remember when I explained nmh's lie to you. Rather than accept that he had lied or tried to explain why his false statements weren't lies, you dishonestly changed the subject.

Why are so few creationists prepared to admit that their side has liars?
203 posted on 07/22/2005 12:26:09 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: AntiGuv
If an omnipotent god exists, then for our purposes evil is whatever said god regards to be evil.

There are, however, strong philosophical arguments that good and evil exist exterior to God and can be objectively understood regardless of the whims of the Almighty.

204 posted on 07/22/2005 12:27:23 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: mlc9852

Typical creationist. When confronted with the fact that their arguments are either dishonest of flawed, they insult the person pointing out the facts and run off like a coward.


205 posted on 07/22/2005 12:27:27 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: mike182d

PS. In case you want more clarification on the distinction between God's action of creating the man and the parent's action of conceiving that same man, then the difference is that God (as you've described him) knows the murderous outcome of his action in its totality. The murderer's parents do not. Moreover, God (as you've described him) retains full control over the actions of the murderous man and so obviously chooses to permit the murder to take place. The murderer's parents have no such control over their son's destiny.


206 posted on 07/22/2005 12:28:29 PM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: mlc9852
Not only do you revel in your ignorance, you are proud that there are many folks just as willfully ignorant as you.

Mein Gott. What has become of America?

207 posted on 07/22/2005 12:28:40 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Sloth
Nope. Their greatest interest is in getting tenure, or being well-thought-of by their peers, and that's not going to happen if they deny the tenets of the faith.

Ah, the evil "conspiracy of millions of scientists to damn our souls to Hell."

208 posted on 07/22/2005 12:30:31 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Junior

Not a conspiracy at all. Just peer pressure. The same effect is seen in, for instance, the 'global warming' nonsense.


209 posted on 07/22/2005 12:32:49 PM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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To: Junior; mike182d
There are, however, strong philosophical arguments that good and evil exist exterior to God and can be objectively understood regardless of the whims of the Almighty.

Well, I don't disagree with that, but I am restricting myself to the logical implications of Mike's explicit premises. If you have an alternative reasoning then I'd be interested to see it. I've provided one myself, but it seems to have been rejected.

210 posted on 07/22/2005 12:33:12 PM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Junior

Rather pathetic that the only argument they have against the scientific consesus on evolution is allegations of some kind of conspiracy.


211 posted on 07/22/2005 12:33:46 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Junior
I find you willfully ignorant.
212 posted on 07/22/2005 12:35:57 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Stark_GOP
The Bible states simply and clearly in Exodus that God made the world in six days.

Exodus?

The six day creation story is in Genesis 1, not Exodus.

213 posted on 07/22/2005 12:36:10 PM PDT by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: Sloth

Good point. The global warming crap is a great example of why there is so much mistrust in scientists.


214 posted on 07/22/2005 12:37:53 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Junior
PS. Also, there is a crucial distinction between just any ol' God and an omnipotent God in particular. The God we're debating has been defined as a virtually (but not really) omnipotent and totally omniscient God incapable of enacting evil.
215 posted on 07/22/2005 12:40:15 PM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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To: AntiGuv

God did, indeed, create the freedom to make evil choices. It's my belief that one who fills infinity with creations ultimately must create an infinity of variety. It's not that the Creator is any more evil than the author of a good book, villains included. Heavan would be meaningless if it wasn't exclusive. Hell would be meaningless if it wasn't a punishment.

Of course, what I just wrote means nothing to someone who needs proof that God is real. For those who need that, look at Job 26.7. There's one strong clue. FRegards....


216 posted on 07/22/2005 12:40:37 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (The High Priest of Baby Killers. People don't call Schumer 'Upchuck' for nothing.)
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To: mlc9852

"You keep using that word.

I do not think it means what you think it means."


217 posted on 07/22/2005 12:41:23 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: From many - one.; shuckmaster; Ichneumon
second the motion

Opposed. If Ichneumon were to write a book, he'd be too busy to post here.

218 posted on 07/22/2005 12:42:52 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: ColoCdn

And what have the "creationist peer reviewers" done about "Brad Harrub, Ph.D."?


219 posted on 07/22/2005 12:42:57 PM PDT by atlaw
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To: Sloth
Dude, there ain't that much peer pressure. If a researcher discovered God's own signature on a DNA molecule, he'd most definitely publish. There would be a Nobel and its attendent paycheck waiting for him.

Research has to be replicated. That's why real scientific papers include the assumptions, methods, processes and conclusions in such a manner that anyone in the field can duplicate the research (and hopefully duplicate the results). Every researcher in every field wants to be the one who comes up with that Earth-shattering discovery that will elevate his name to the pantheon of greats and assure him a comfortable place in not only history but his field as well. Finding evidence of God's handiwork would more than suffice.

However, here we run into a slight problem. How does one test for God? What kind of evidence would one look for? The IDers think they've got that one, but they seem to forget they are trying to prove a negative (something could NOT have come about without intervention). This is a losing proposition from the get-go because one can never prove a negative. IDers have yet to come up with a test for the positive evidence of intelligent intervention -- because they cannot define what they are looking for.

220 posted on 07/22/2005 12:43:18 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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