Posted on 07/05/2005 7:07:57 PM PDT by balrog666
Oh Puh-leez. Show me where it says that. Did you make up an 11th Commandment?
Exodus 22:18
And again you ignore the rest of the Western Hemisphere that in fact DID do something.
How oblivious can you get? I most certainly did nothing of the sort. I refuted your contention in detail, and you have offered up no counterargument whatsoever.
I'll note you dropped the "America was full of Protestants" part of my speal.
Do you think protestents have any better historical track record than Catholics? The biggest jew-hater in Europe in his day was Martin Luther.
m sorry, I mised the part where the Holocaust was common knowledge outside of German territory at that time. Please, explain.
You just finished claiming the Allied war effort was to rescue the jews. Exactly how would that be if the Allies had no knowledge of the holocaust?
Many lives were spent getting extensive photographic and otherwise documentation of the deathcamps into the hands of the Pope and Roosevelt, years before the camps were overrun by the allies. The story is fairly well known.
That is now known to be utter hogwash. Local papers carried news items about the shifting railroad traffic of boxcars full of jews, as was the wholesale de-population of the major ghettos. The slavic jew-murdering was practically a national celebration. The churches knew why they were being asked to identify jews, which is why they refused to deliver up the records for jewish converts to catholocism. If you had bothered to look at the evidence I presented you with, you wouldn't make ludicrous claims.
You shouldn't attribute to malice behaviors that ignorance suffice to explain.
The fact is that evolution has us on the ropes, we pedestrian Christians that is. Not the science behind it, but the spin the science is given: the worldview projected onto and from the science. Nothing has undermined the faith of our children, our neighbors and our friends more than the possibility that God did not make them, that God is not their Father, but a monkey is their uncle.
I'm lucky, being a Catholic, I do not have to hold to a fundamentalists faith in the story of Genesis. I have to hold on to the Church. However, many of my brethren lost to the Catholic church have the bible alone and if they surrender one word of it, they are on a slippery slope.
The upshot is that we ordinary Christians either turn away from science as we would a persecutor or enemy, or we fight against it. "Science" has become a dirty word, along with "professor" and "doctor."
The best thing an evolutionist could do, the most charitable thing science could do, is to give back to the Christians a foothold for their faith. It's really the only thing that can avert the culture war between Christianity in America and science in America.
Please pardon me for not using macro-evolution as a technical term. I was using the term differently while mixing it with something I parroted from G.K. Chesterton in the Everlasting Man.
You're quite right, you have mountains of evidence. Unfortunately, others have used your mountains of evidence to try to destroy the faith of innocents. I'm certainly not blaming you for this, however, but you see the results are quite plain.
Many lives were spent getting extensive photographic and otherwise documentation of the deathcamps into the hands of the Pope and Roosevelt, years before the camps were overrun by the allies. The story is fairly well known.
My father was a combat pilot in WW2. He told me that intelligence officers told him in summer 1944 of rumours and secret intelligence of the death camps, but that he dismissed them as the crudest allied propaganda imaginable until they were found by allied troops and the red army and the truth came out. I suspect that reaction would probably have been near-universal.
You know. You're right. I should never support an institution that has ever had a faction within it condone mass murder or moving of a people.
Now, put that into conext of the Trail of Tears.
Now bite down on your "truth". The one fed to you by the ACLU and other communists. Your hatred of religion and theology is ignorant of both the nature of faith and the people in it.
It is hate filled drivel you spew, and this means you no longer deserve my attention on the matter.
The line is drawn. By your hand. Be gone.
And may God bless you. (much as it may piss you off.)
Exodus 22:18
I guess you missed the memo. "Yom" means "period of time"
You take it too literally. Especially given the "translation of a translation" thing going on.
But hey, as long as you want the Old Testament (The whole "Jesus doing away with the need for the Old Laws") to be your only word on the matter, go ahead. You "win"
This does not address the issue I raised. The church doesn't have a history of "condoning" it has a history of instigating, on account of scripture and doctrine.
Now, put that into conext of the Trail of Tears.
The difference being that the United States is not God's self-appointed spokesmen, and does not represent itself to be the God's guildpost to morality. Higher claims require higher standards.
Now bite down on your "truth". The one fed to you by the ACLU and other communists. Your hatred of religion and theology is ignorant of both the nature of faith and the people in it.
I have quoted from the bible, and from Papal encyclicles, and referenced fundamental christian doctrine, you have conspicuously failed to respond adequately, or at all--pointing the finger of blame elsewhere is the tactic of a child caught with his fingers in the cookie jar.
It is hate filled drivel you spew, and this means you no longer deserve my attention on the matter.
And that's different from now how?
The line is drawn. By your hand. Be gone.
And may God bless you. (much as it may piss you off.)
I am fairly accustomed to the bolt-and-run with your nose in the air argument--it's not pursuasive.
I guess you missed the memo. "Yom" means "period of time"
This is a totally incompetent response--who do you think you're kidding?
You take it too literally. Especially given the "translation of a translation" thing going on.
All nine common versions of the bible say the same thing--sometimes the word "sorceress" is used instead of witch. The intent is plain.
But hey, as long as you want the Old Testament (The whole "Jesus doing away with the need for the Old Laws") to be your only word on the matter, go ahead. You "win"
Snarky backtalk is not an argument or an answer. Which is trumps when there's a conflict, the Golden Rule, or the 10 Commandments? Are you an apostle of the word of God, regarding fundamental moral guidelines, or are you just a pretty dancing girl?
Indeed. Roosevelt and the Pope were given massive evidence by Jewish partisans, in the hopes that they would react appropriately and publicly or secretively, whichever would be most effective. That trust was misplaced: both parties sat on the evidence and their thumbs until the end of Dec. 44, far too late to do much good. Their loud lamentations thereupon, putting them on the side of the angels--except for those of us with a memory unbesmerched by the soporific effects of media.
Really? How many scientists have I reviled and condemned to life in custody, or to be burned at the stake? How many witches do you suspect me of burning? How many jewish children do you think I have kidnapped to be sent to foreign lands to be raised outside the faith I was born in? Are you under the impression the I published the "Hammer of Witches" or that I ordered the jews of Europe to be legally confined to ghettos?, to be restricted to only certain reviled professions?, to wear conspicuous identifying marks when in public? To be preached to against their will in their own house of worship about the iniquity of their beliefs?
I recommend not shelling so close to your own troops.
And how many witches do you expect ME of burning? You honestly think that I have killed someone. That's fairly damned demeted.
Go talk to a shrink about your fear of God. Better yet, talk to Him about it. Maybe one day you'll figure it out.
I'm not shelling my own troops, I'm calling out the MP on an AWOL renegade, who is fighting his own war with out sides.
I believe in Christ, our Lord. Who abolished the Old Laws (or did you never read the whole Bible?)
Hopefully this thread is dead. Placemarker.
So...your church does not teach that you have to follow the 10 commandments? Your church considers them the 10 strong suggestions? Are you an albigensian?
Your wish is my command.
Actually, the Ten Commandments aren't the Old Law. Everything after them is (circumcision and such)
Jesus proclaimed the 10 Commandments. He even pointed out His favorite. I don't recall him doing the same about the laws for tatoos.
Nice try though. It may pay to read a little more.
"Higher claims require higher standards. "
I'm sorry, but if you're an atheist, and you think that the USA isn't the "highest claim", then you can get the hell out of my country.
I'm going to war by January most likely, and I will be damned if I'm going to have someone like you tell me that (in absence of God) the USA is NOT the top of the line!
The 10 commandments aren't part of the Old Law--meaning the laws the jews lived by, I presume you mean. Care to explain that a little further? Or do you wish to stand pat with mouth and foot fully engaged?
Jesus proclaimed the 10 Commandments. He even pointed out His favorite.
Jesus said it did not come to oppose the laws, he came to confirm them.
I don't recall him doing the same about the laws for tatoos.
The laws for tatoos? When did that come up in this conversation--this argument is not about tatoos, is it? Is it possible you can't say "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", without getting a mental hernia?
Nice try though. It may pay to read a little more.
Well, perhaps you could help by pointing out to me where, in the bible, it says that the 10 commandments are in, but everything God says after that is out. You might also point out how this answers a question you were asked: which is trumps when the Golden Rule and a Commandment conflict?
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