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Take Terri Schindler-Schiavo into protective custody!
Catholic Family Association of America ^ | March 15, 2005 | Timothy A. Chichester

Posted on 03/22/2005 8:34:41 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel

The Honorable George W. Bush
President of the United States of America
The White House
Washington, D.C.

Dear Mr. President,

I am asking you to direct U.S. Marshals to place Terri Schindler-Schiavo in protective custody, removing her from the bailiwick of Florida Judge George Greer, who has consistently presented a hostile and anti-life bias through his disregard of those particulars of her case that reflect upon felonious injuries to her, denial of medical care and denial of her First Amendment religious rights.

Charged with upholding the Constitution and protecting citizens, it is your duty to always protect innocent life and err on the side of such life if there is the slightest doubt. In Terri's case there is much doubt.

Action is required of you in Terri's case because the judicial system alone will not protect her for several reasons. First, Judge Greer has been shown to have multiple conflicts of interest, among which are acceptance of campaign donations from Felos & Felos, the legal firm trying to starve her (Attachment 1). Second, the majority of the Supreme Court justices are profoundly corrupt in their thinking regarding the nature of man and his unalienable right to life. Their insistence on referencing militant secular foreign legal systems at odds with the Constitution of the United States bias them toward a culture of death rather than the dignity of men inherent in the unalienable rights granted by God and referenced by our country's sacred founding documents. A failure to confront the courts at this pivot of history will forever embed the idea that courts have become the ultimate power with the right to legislate the very existence of individuals. Your failure to act will solidify the perception deliberately created by activists that the Constitution is inadequate and must be constantly amended by them from the bench in order to create a society governed only by the courts. Congress is unable to act because many in it do not wish to protect either life or the Constitution. The executive branch is the only unit of government that has the coherent vision necessary to act to protect Terri, the multitude she represents, and the Constitution so trampled by the courts.

Transformation of Medical Ethics

We have seen the transformation of medical ethics from the protective morality of the Hippocratic Oath to the rejection of that oath by most modern doctors. Nowhere is this rejection more evident than in Belgium and the Netherlands, where legal and involuntary euthanasia are rampant. Experts believe that 10% of all deaths in Belgium now result from euthanasia or drugs given by doctors to hasten death.

That our judicial system now openly and defiantly embraces the legal thinking of such depraved nations is a gross violation of oaths to uphold the Constitution and radically diminishes the protections the Constitution affords our citizens. Soon we will see euthanasia offered as a medical ‘benefit’ to the elderly and disabled. Soon after, we will see it offered them as their only available ‘benefit’. Nursing homes are already used by hospitals as charnel houses to reduce their mortality rates. We have long exported abortion as a matter of policy, an export now temporarily suspended under your leadership, but sure to resume as long as Roe vs. Wade is upheld. When euthanasia becomes legal, we will unleash a second tidal wave of blood that will cover what good we may ever have accomplished in our national lifetime.

Why Terri is important

The pressure of population decline is at the heart of the funding problems of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the health insurance industry as a whole. Population control has been the most successful and devastating societal destabilization program ever undertaken and threatens our freedom at many levels. Secularists, noted for the sea of blood spilt where-ever they achieve political control, have been the foremost champions of population control and are now pointing to euthanasia as the solution to the demographic problem they have brought into being. (Attachment 2)

Terri Schindler-Schiavo is a pivotal case because she exemplifies the ‘quality of life’ versus ‘cost’ issue so important to proponents of the culture of death.

She is important precisely because she smiles at the voice of her mother and is clearly not a vegetable. Her death will be a triumph for the killers because it will prove that we are unwilling to take the steps necessary to protect clearly living… but inconvenient life. The fate of millions hangs upon her protection. The Nazi euthanasia program, known as Aktion T 4, was to eliminate "life unworthy of life" and began with a single disabled German. It ended when a Catholic Bishop, Clemens von Galen spoke out. We have been speaking for years… to no avail. If we do not act now, Terri Schindler-Schiavo’s public death by starvation will serve as a witness to the multitude of innocent Americans whose blood will haunt our nation.

Lincoln’s second inaugural address focused on the "terrible war", the fruit of slavery "as the woe due to those by whom the offense came… and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said ‘the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether’".

The slaughter of the innocent by euthanasia and abortion surely exceeds the horrors of slavery; unless we dare to exert our fortunes on Terri's behalf I fear that Lincoln's words will once again ring true.

For the sake of our country and the world to which we are an example, I beg you to issue an executive order protecting Terri pending resolution of her case.



Sincerely in Christ,

Timothy A. Chichester



cc:  His Holiness, John Paul II
      The Honorable Alberto Gonzales, U.S. Attorney General
      Mr. & Mrs. Robert Schindler c/o Gibbs Law Firm, Seminole, Florida

Attachments: 1) Chart showing donations by litigants to Judge George Greer
                   2) "On Decrease of Fertility in the World" by the Pontifical Council for the Family


© Copyright Catholic Family Association of America 2005. All rights reserved.   Permission to use with attribution

Table indicating the conflicts of interest of those involved in supporting starvation of Terri Schiavo and Judge Greer

Maximum contribution allowed by an individual is $500

An Analysis reproduced from The Empire Journal March 1, 2005
Lawyers For
Michael Schiavo

Hamden Baskin III

Felos & Felos

Deborah Bushnell

Gyneth S. Stanley Steven Nilsson Beth Wilson  

$500& $500
$150 and $250
$250 and $250
$250 and $100

Michael Schiavo’s Lawyer[s] Greer denies many or all of Schindler’s in favor of Felos
Greer allows hearsay as evidence/disallows Schindler’s statements

Felos former chairman of board of directors of Hospice of Florida Suncoast
  Daniel Grieco  


Employer of Michael Schiavo at time of Feb. 25, 1990 then attorney of record for Michael up until the malpractice award,

Incident when injuries occurred to Terri

Reappeared as attorney for selected pleadings

Frank Nagatani $50 and $50   DCF Attorney Squashed
testimony for DCF Investigator to appear on behalf of abuse allegations
  Bernie McCabe In-Kind State Attorney Allowed underling to appear in campaign ad for Greer
Will not call Grand Jury
  Everett Rice $500 & In-Kind Sheriff/State Rep Didn’t conduct criminal investigation into what really happened to Terri or allegations of abuse after initial incident.
Allowed Deputy & use of county property to appear in campaign ad for Greer
  John Carassas $100   Deputy Attorney General Florida Deputy Attorney General, involvement with Rice in Sept. 2003 motion for Greer recusal due to improper discussion of case
  James Hellickson  

$150 & In Kind

Assistant state attorney in office of Bernie McCabe, Pinellas/Pasco State Attorney
Appeared in Greer Campaign Ad
  Paula Shea In Kind Assistant Pinellas Public Defender Appeared in Greer Campaign Ad 
  Andrew Sasso  


Officer in Guardianship monitoring program and Guardian ad litem pool Was supposed to: "evaluate information about the well-being and property of all persons adjudicated of having a legal incapacity so that the court can fulfill its legal obligation to protect and preserve the interests of the ward, FL COURTS
Misc. People w connections Richard La Belle  


Member of Board of Directors of
Advocacy Center
for Persons with Disabilities
Supposedly ACPD doing investigation into Schiavo case
  Battaglia, Ross, Disus and Wein  


Principal Kelli Crabb is past chairperson of Hospice Foundation of Florida Suncoast and member of Board of directors
  Gus Bilirakis  

$40 cash

Former Hospice Board member and of American Hellonic Education Progressive Assoc. (AHEPA)
Felos past Governor
  Divito and Higham  

$250 and $250

Law firm employed by St. Petersburg/Venice
Terri’s Dioceses

On Decrease of Fertility in the World

Declaration by the Pontifical Council for the Family
issued in Rome on February 27, 1998.

1. Being Attentive to Demographic Trends

Following the mandate which it has received, the Pontifical Council for the Family closely follows the demographic trends of the different countries in the world.1 For this reason, the Council has already convened various meetings of world-renowned experts. This has permitted a closer look at circumstances proper to specific continents. In that way, trends in the Americas were the object of a congress in Mexico City2 (21-23 April 1993). Trends in Asia and Oceania were studied at a conference in Taipei3 (18-20 September 1995). The variety of demographic trends in the different countries of Europe were examined in Rome4 (17-19 October 1996). At the present, the Pontifical Council for the Family is preparing a meeting which will be devoted to the demographic situation in African countries.

Meanwhile, the Pontifical Council for the Family follows with attention and interest the studies of research centres; on demographic matters. Among these institutions is the Population Division of the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs. This body convened a meeting of 14 world-renowned experts in Toronto, Canada, 4-6 November 1997, in order to study the actual worldwide decline in fertility and its foreseeable consequences for various nations in the immediate future. These experts could only confirm what all demographic data has already indicated for many years, namely, that the decrease in fertility which, for some 20 years, has affected most of the industrially developed countries in Northern and Western Europe, Canada, the United States, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, is extending to an ever greater number of developing countries, In Southern and Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. One expert, commenting on the continuity of this decline since 1975 in countries which already had a low fertility rate, remarked: "Once the fertility transition begins, further declines follow invariably".5

2. A Common Vocabulary: Widespread, Simplistic, and Erroneous

For too long, most of the discussions about population have developed a certain universal and erroneous popular vocabulary, according to which the world is viewed as a prisoner of an "exponential", even "galloping" demographic growth, which is causing a "demographic explosion" the so-called "demographic time bomb". The Pontifical Council for the Family, which has demonstrated in one of its publications6 that this "popular vocabulary" really lacks all foundation, is pleased to note that, even in some agencies of the UN, the truth regarding the demographic situation has begun to be recognized. Indeed, for 30 years, the conferences sponsored by this organization have provoked and nurtured unfounded fears about demography, especially in the southern countries. On this alarmist basis, different agencies of the UN have invested and continue to invest huge financial resources in order to compel many countries to institute Malthusian policies. It has been proven that these programmes, always imported from abroad, usually involve compulsory measures of fertility control. In the same way, international aid for development is regularly granted on the condition of establishing programmes of population control which include forced sterilizations, or sterilizations performed without proper informed consent. Local governments are also adopting such Malthusian policies, and non-governmental organizationsÑof which the most important is the well-known International Planned Parenthood Federation are actively fostering these policies. In the poor countries, the first victims of these programmes are the innocent and helpless populations. They are systematically deceived and driven to consent to their mutilation under the false argument that it is, for them, a necessary antecedent to development.

3. Demographic Decrease and the Aging of Populations

These disastrous policies stand in total contradiction to the actual demographic trends, as they are revealed in statistics and the analysis of available data. For 30 years, the rate of growth of the world's population has continued to decline at a regular and significant rate. At this point, following an impressive drop in their fertility, 51 countries in the world (out of 185) are no longer able to replace their population. To be precise, these 51 countries represent 44 per cent of the population of the world. In other words, the total fertility rate (TFR) in these countries, that is to say, the number of children born of each woman, is lower than 2.1. This is the minimum level of fertility needed for the replacement of the population in a country which has the optimum public health conditions.

This situation is found to be the same on almost every continent. There is below-replacement-level fertility in America (the United States, Canada, Cuba, and most of the Caribbean islands), in Asia (Georgia, Thailand, China, Japan and South Korea), in Oceania (Australia) and in almost all the countries of Europe. On this continent, the effect of aging on population leads to depopulation, with the number of deaths surpassing the number of births. This negative balance is occurring in 13 countries already, including Estonia, Latvia, Germany, Belarus, Bulgary, Hungary, Russia, Spain and Italy.

Beyond the question of aging, the most problematic question is that of demographic decline, with all the adverse consequences that such a decline can bring about. In the near future, the number of countries whose fertility rate is below replacement level will multiply. In the same way, the number of countries whose mortality rate is higher than its birth rate will increase.

Such realities, which have been familiar to demographers for a long time, still seem hidden from the media, public opinion and those responsible for public policy decisions. They are passed over in silence at the international conferences, as was evident, for example, during the Cairo Conference in 1994, and during the Beijing Conference in 1995.

4. Complex Causes

The causes of this unprecedented situation are certainly complex.7 J-CI. Chesnais, of the Institut National d'Etudes Demographiques (Paris), has analyzed them in detail for the above-mentioned meeting of demographic experts. Some of the causes are easily spotted. The marriage rate, in an environment which is unfavourable to matrimony, has significantly dropped, and thus fewer people are marrying. The mean age at which women first give birth has sharply increased, and continues to do so. Labour Codes do not facilitate the desire of women to integrate harmoniously their family life and professional activity. The lack of true family policies in these countries which, nevertheless, are directly affected by the demographic decrease, explains why families cannot actually have the number of children which they would like to have: it is estimated that the difference between the number of children that European women desire and the number they really have is around 0.6 child/woman.8

J-CI. Chesnais concludes his report about the causes of the fertility decrease by introducing a new element in demography, which has been rather neglected by demographers: the ratio between pessimism and hope experienced by populations. According to this author, a return to a higher fertility rate in those countries whose fertility is declining at the present can be expected only if there is a change in the "mood" in these countries, a shift from present pessimism to a state of mind which could be compared to that of the "babyboom" era, during the era of post-World War II reconstruction.9

Apart from these causes based on living conditions and on sociocultural changes in industrially developed countries, other factors directly link demographic decrease to the human will, and therefore to human responsibility. These are the methods and policies of voluntary limitation of births. The spread of chemical contraception techniques and often the legalization of abortion have been established, while at the same time, policies in favour of welcoming new lives have been weakened.

In recent years, mass sterilization, already mentioned, has been added to these causes. One can recall the massive, scandalous campaigns of male and female sterilization in India in 1954 and 1976, leading to the overthrow of Mrs. Gandhi's government.10 In Brazil and in Mexico, 40 per cent of the women using a fertility-control method are sterilized.

At the present moment, the media is reporting the sterilization campaign carried out last year in Peru by the services of the Public Health Department. This has provoked a worldwide reaction of indignation.11 Public health-care employees12 put "pressures" on women formed about the real purpose of their "operation".13 These procedures also resulted in a number of deaths. The Catholic Bishops of the region have demanded an explanation.14 They have been joined by a large group of congressmen who have asked that the Peruvian Congress investigate these sterilizations (which number more than 100,000) in order to determine the medical and ethical conditions under which they were performed. These congressmen seek to reveal the full truth regarding violations of human rights carried out during this governmental campaign.15

5. Toward Severe Unbalances

From these causes, which we have briefly noted, disturbing consequences result. The youth ratio in these populations decreases markedly. Consequently, we see a reversal of the age pyramid. A small population of young adults must then secure the production of the country and support the large population of older, less active people who have a greater need of health care and medical services. Within the active population, some deep imbalances are occurring between the young and the somewhat older people, as the latter try to protect their jobs while younger generations come to a reduced job market.

Nor should one forget the effect of an aging population on education. In order to provide for the economic burden of the elderly, there is a great temptation to cut down on the money allocated for the training of new generations. This weakening of the educational system brings in turn a considerable risk: that of losing what might be called the communal memory. The transmission of cultural, scientific, technical, artistic, moral and religious common goods becomes thereby endangered. It also needs to be pointed out that, contrary to what is often asserted, unemployment itself is aggravated by the demographic decline.

The experts also foresee some other aspects of the current trend: the increase in the mean age of the population may markedly affect its psychological profile: "moroseness", the lack of intellectual, economic, scientific and social dynamism and reduced creativityÑwhich seem already at work in some "aged" countriesÑwould merely express the structure of the demographic pyramid of these countries.

Meanwhile, the ratio of the elderly who hold positions of responsibility in society increases. Under these conditions, in order to secure the healthy functioning of various social insurance programmes (pensions, life insurance, health insurance, welfare system) the temptation becomes great to resort to euthanasia. It is well-known that euthanasia is already performed in various European countries.

Among the most obvious effects of demographic decline, we have to mention the violent imbalances, already foreseeable, between countries whose demographic age compositions are widely different. If, for example, we compare the age pyramid in countries such as France, Spain and Italy, on the one hand, with countries like Algeria, Morocco and Turkey on the other, we are impressed by the fact that they are precisely the reverse of one another. We can imagine the problems produced by such a contrast. Some of the difficulties that rich countries find today in effectively limiting clandestine immigration from poorer countries may be only the precursor of the problems which lie ahead.

It is urgent that public opinion and those responsible for public policy be informed of these trends. It is no less urgent to reject the fallacious data, ideological sophisms and even fabricated statistics that are invoked in presentations on these themes. In the field of demography, as in other fields of knowledge, the truth cannot be concealed forever. One cannot but rejoice to see that this truth is becoming more and more evident, as the Population Division of the UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs did not hesitate to call for this meeting of experts on the theme of "below-replacement fertility". There is no reason not to reject the inaccuracies and lies which have been too often exploited in order to "justify" programes and policies totally incompatible with the respect due to fundamental human rights.

6. Celebrating Man and His Rights

In this regard, the 50th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a reminder to the world. To celebrate these rights is to celebrate man. This moment provides a unique opportunity for the human community to strengthen the respect due to the essential values to which it has subscribed, and on which it has committed itself to build its future. These values must be safeguarded from all compromise on the part of States, international organizations, private groups or individuals. These rights are identified as follows: the right to life, the right to physical and psychological integrity, and the equal dignity of all human beings (cf. article 1).

The year 1998 offers to all people and nations the occasion to assert again with enthusiasm their unreserved approval of the letter and spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948.

Here, great vigilance is needed. Faithfulness to the Declaration implies the exclusion of all efforts which seek, under the guise of so-called "new rights", to include abortion (cf. article 3), to leave physical integrity unprotected (Ibid.), or to undermine the heterosexual, monogamous family (cf. Article 16). Some are currently striving for these harmful goals, seeking to deprive some human beings of their fundamental rights, and to impose upon the weakest new forms of oppression (cf. articles 4 and 5). The lies which undergird these efforts inevitably lead to violence and barbarity and introduce the "culture of death".16

As Pope John Paul II has declared: "Human rights transcend every constitutional order". These rights are inherent in each man. They do not result from a consensus which is open to negotiation depending on the forces or self-interests that may be present. The very existence of these rights, recognized and solemnly declared in 1948, does not depend on the relative quality of the formulations which exist in constitutions and laws (cf. article 2.2). Every constitution, every law, which would attempt to limit the possession of these declared rights, or to modify their meaning, should be immediately denounced as discriminatory and, as suggested by the Preamble of the Declaration, as suspect of totalitarian ferments.

It is on this common reference to values, defended at the price of so many teats, that the fabric of the nations can be restored, and that a city of the world open to the "culture of life" can be built. This ambitious project is not out of reach, but the solidarity between peoples, which is both its nourishment and its fruit, supposes, as a preliminary condition, that the solidarity between generations be affirmed.

As a consequence, the Pontifical Council for the Family invites all people of goodwill, and especially Christian associations, to do their part in making the truth regarding current demographic trends widely known. It invites them to condemn with courage the Malthusian programmes which remain totally unjustified and completely in violation of human rights.

Rome 27 February 1998.


1 Cf. Pontifical Council for the Family, Evolutions demographiques: Dimensions Ethiques et Pastorales, Citta del Vaticano, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 1994, ISBN 88-209-1991-5.

2 Cuestiones Demograficas en America Latina en perspectiva del ano internacional de la familia 1994, Mexico, April 1993, Ediciones PROVIVE, ISBN 980-6256-04-2.

3 International Conference on Demography and the Family in Asia and Oceania, Taipei, Taiwan, 18-20 September 1995, The Franciscan Gabriel Printing Co. Ltd, December 1996, ISBN 95798831-1-4.

4 Familia et Vita, Anno II, n. 1, 1997, pp. 3-137.

5 Aminur Khan, Fertility Trends among Low Fertility Countries, Expert Group Meeting on Below-Replacement Fertility, Population Division, Department of Economic and Social Affairs, United Nations Secretariat, UN/POP/BRF/BP/1997/1, p. 11.

6 Cf. note 1.

7 J-CI.Chesnais, Determinants of Below-Replacement Fertility, Expert group meeting on Below-Replacement Fertility, Population Division, Department of Economic and Social Affairs, United Nations Secretariat, New York, 4-6 November 1997, UN/POP/BRF/BP/1997/2, pp. 3-17.

8 J-CI.Chesnais, Determinants of Below-Replacement Fertility, p. 12.

9 "The second half on this century experienced the decline of puritanism and the victory of materialism (hedonism, cult of consumption, American way of life). The coming century could stress the limits of this model.... The trivial interpretation of the baby-boom as a response to the economic growth does not hold; the real crucial change was the change in the state of mind, from mourning to hope. How is it possible to imagine such an inversion of the historical trend without a big shock?". J-Cl. Chesnais, Determinants of BelowReplacement Fertility, pp. 13-14.

10 The consent of women to surgical sterilization In conditions devoid of hygiene was obtained in exchange for a gift of food. The number of such "voluntary" sterilizations declined sharply in the year following the fall of Mrs. Gandhi's government. J.H. Leavesley, Update on Sterilization, Family Planning Information Service, vol. 1, n. 5, 1980.

11 As pointed out by the French newspaper Le Monde, the accusations in that country against the population policy were not new, but, "since they had come until now from the Catholic Church, public opinion was hardly concerned, attributing them to the Church's traditional opposition to contraception. Today, however, it is from the third national congress of rural and indigenous women that protests are coming, and they are reiterated by the farmers' union, popular women's organizations, feminists and opposition members of Congress". N. Bonnet, "La campagne de sterilisation au Perou provoque de nombreuses critiques. L'existence de pressions exercees sur les femmes a ete denoncee par un journal et plusieurs organisations et reconnue par le vice-ministre de la sante", Le Monde, Friday, 2 January 1998, p. 3.

12 As the American expert Richard Clinton said: "Dispensaries have monthly quotas to respect". This explains why, near the end of each month, the employees of the Public Health Department, for fear of losing their jobs, were so eager to "encourage" Quechua women to go "to the dispensary" for "the vaccination for their baby and for a small, painless and free operation for themselves", N. Bonnet, La campagne de sterilisation. . .

13 The newspaper El Comercio, in order to clarify the debate, has carried out a large inquiry on these sterilizations in the poorest parts of the country and has brought back testimonies which confirm that, in exchange for food and care for their younger children, some women have submitted to tubal ligation. The newspaper explains that the State takes charge of the surgery but refuses to accept responsibility for complications or deaths when the operation turns out badly. N. Bonnet, La campagne do sterilisation au Perou...

14 Joaquin Diez Esteban, "La campana decontrol de la natalidad se cobra cinco victimas", Palabra, 1 February 1998, p. 22.

15 Ibid.

16 Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Centesimus annus, 1991, n. 39.

TOPICS: Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: schiavo; terri; terrischiavo
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Press Release

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:25 PM

In a letter sent March 15th, the Catholic Family Association of America called upon President Bush to place Terri Schiavo in protective custody by removing her from the bailiwick of Florida Judge George Greer. The CFAA cited Greers consistently hostile and anti-life bias as evidenced by his disregard of those particulars of her case that reflect upon felonious injuries to her, denial of medical care and denial of her First Amendment religious rights.

Of major concern to CFAA was that the majority of the Supreme Court justices are profoundly corrupt in their thinking regarding the nature of man and his unalienable right to life. CFAA’s president Timothy A. Chichester’s letter to President Bush stated that "the insistence on referencing militant secular foreign legal systems at odds with the Constitution of the United States bias them toward a culture of death."

The letter expressed grave concern that the legal opinions of such depraved nations as Belgium and the Netherlands, where legal and involuntary euthanasia are rampant, are now routinely cited by the Supreme Court as they demean and invalidate the Constitution.

Chichester noted that Congress was unable to act and said that the executive branch possessed the only coherent vision capable of engendering action, noting that "A failure to confront the courts at this pivot of history will forever embed the idea that courts have become the ultimate power with the right to legislate the very existence of individuals."

CFAA is asking Americans to call the White House Switchboard at 202-456-1414 and beg President Bush to protect Terri Schiavo pending a fair resolution to her state.

The complete letter can be found at



Timothy Chichester
Catholic Family Association of America
Austerlitz, NY 12017

1 posted on 03/22/2005 8:34:41 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel
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To: St. Johann Tetzel

Ultimately, someone should definitely take her into protective custody. I pray those who sit in positions of authority will find the moral clarity and legal instrumentation to do so...if not, I pray 10,000 good men with an ambulance and access to appropriate medical facilities will to do so.

2 posted on 03/22/2005 8:38:01 AM PST by Jeff Head (
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To: St. Johann Tetzel

Still praying for Terri.

3 posted on 03/22/2005 8:40:13 AM PST by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Jersey Republican Biker Chick

I am also. So many sad things in the news right now. My prayers were extra long last night.

5 posted on 03/22/2005 8:42:31 AM PST by pies
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To: sagebrush58

You can be sure that, if a hundred thousand armed pro-life Patriots stormed that hospice to take her into protective custody and prevent her murder, Jeb Bush and George Bush would regretfully be forced to "obey the courts," there would be a blood bath of hitherto unseen proportions in modern America, and Terri would still be killed.

The government fears an armed popular uprising far more than the political backlash rightfully due them for allowing the activist judiciary to step all over the other branches of government.

We might have handguns and hunting rifles and the occasional semi-auto rifle, but the US Government has the armored US military, and they would not hesitate one minute to crush such a rebellion.

6 posted on 03/22/2005 8:57:30 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (Rule One! No Poofters!)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: St. Johann Tetzel
Ahh...but many of the people manning those armored vehicles are people just like you and me and may not follow orders in such a horrific case. Those in power fear that too.

Our armed forces do not act in a vaccuum.

I pray it never comes to that, but sadly, we are on that type of road, and have been for some time. We need a statemesman, not a politician, to use clarity, reason, common sense and virtue to save this woman....and damn the politics, the legaleze, and the stagnating, paralyzing fear for their political "career" in the process. Such an individual would probably find, at the end of the day, that their future were brighter with the people for having so acted.

8 posted on 03/22/2005 9:02:26 AM PST by Jeff Head (
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To: St. Johann Tetzel

A real cowboy with a white hat would have ridden in a long
time ago and saved that little gal...

Our hides in the white house


9 posted on 03/22/2005 9:04:35 AM PST by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: sagebrush58
The US armed forces are trained to fight only a foreign enemy.

But what about the BATF/FBI/Federal Marshalls/Homeland Security, and the rest of the alphabet-soup paramilitary federal armed bodies?

An armed group of American Patriots, seeking by force to thwart the will of a state or federal judge, will be deemed a domestic terrorist group, and will be dealt with as such.

Otherwise, I'd probably be there myself already.

Jus ad Bellum, whether lethal force may be used is governed by the following criteria, these criteria, taken as a whole, must be satisfied in order to override the strong presumption against the use of force.

Just Cause: force may be used only to correct a grave, public evil, i.e., aggression or massive violation of the basic rights of whole populations; obviously force may be used in self-defense or to pre-empt an anticipated attack.

Legitimate Authority: only duly constituted public authorities may use deadly force or wage war. Even just causes cannot be served by actions taken by individuals or groups who do not constitute an authority sanctioned by whatever the society deems legitimate.

Right Intention: force may be used only in a truly just cause and solely for that purpose. The ultimate goal or intention of the use of force is to re-establish peace, specifically a peace that is preferable to the peace that would have prevailed had the war not been fought. Nations must take care in answering the question—When does right intention separate itself from self-interest?

Probability of Success: arms may not be used in a futile cause, there must be a reasonable chance of success. This is not always an easy answer, i.e., It may be necessary to stand up to a much stronger military power, as the Finns did when Russia invaded in 1940, for the sake national self-esteem.

Proportionality: the overall destruction expected from the use of force must be outweighed by the good to be achieved; a nation cannot go to war without considering the effect of its action on others and on the international community.

Last Resort: force may be used only after all peaceful alternatives have been seriously tried and exhausted.

11 posted on 03/22/2005 9:12:08 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (Rule One! No Poofters!)
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To: sagebrush58

President Bush signed legislation to do what he could. He is president, not king, not dictator. I give him credit for what he and his brother have done. Do you think Kerry, had he been elected, would have done as much? It is NOT Bush's fault!

12 posted on 03/22/2005 9:12:40 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Jeff Head
See post # 11. Federal paramilitary forces (BATF, FBI, Homeland Security?) wouldn't hesitate for one minute to open fire on a large group of armed patriots deemed "domestic terrorists" by the federal government.

And it would be Bush signing the order.

13 posted on 03/22/2005 9:14:53 AM PST by St. Johann Tetzel (Rule One! No Poofters!)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: sagebrush58
What would you suggest the president do that he hasn't already done. Declare war on the hospice and send in the troops? Issue an executive order declaring Michael an enemy combatant and send him to Guantanamo?
15 posted on 03/22/2005 9:17:40 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: mlc9852
The ball is, and has been, in the court of Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida. He has the lawmen and social service agencies that could remove Terri Schiavo from the present facility to one where she would receive good care in a few hours. President Bush may command the world's finest military and supervises the spending of hundreds of billions of dollars per year, but his kid brother has the needed resources to save her almost instantaneously. Furthermore, Governor Bush's authority and responsibility under Florida law are clear; Federal power in this matter is far murkier.
16 posted on 03/22/2005 9:20:42 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Wallace T.

Under what Florida law can Gov. Bush do what you suggest?

17 posted on 03/22/2005 9:21:42 AM PST by mlc9852
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: St. Johann Tetzel

It would be "easier" if Bush started the armed (if necessary) confrontation by sending in US Marshals to rescue Terri. If the other patriots started it I am afraid civil war would ensue. He is a courageous man I have hopes he will intervene. But courage is on a continuum and I'm not sure any living politician has the courage to cause the death of potentially millions in the name of freedom. If you are a thinking person of principle you will not launch into a civil war easily. It is easier for you to rish your life trying to save Terri Schiavo than a president to risk the lives of millions to save her (and our rights). Calling him a coward is not just.

20 posted on 03/22/2005 9:24:27 AM PST by (I Breathe and My Heart is Beating - I am by definition alive!)
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